[split] I'm needy/psychotropic drug debate
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13-02-2017, 01:37 PM
RE: I'm needy
(13-02-2017 01:28 PM)LadyDay Wrote:  
(13-02-2017 12:44 PM)PayZip Wrote:  Your brain is unlikely "safe-ish."

If you read the works of people like Peter Breggin, MD, or Peter Gotzsche, MD, you will recognize that massive harm from psychotropic drugs aren't just coming from SSRIs but other types of drugs.

"Talking to your doctor" is likely going to lead a person down a misguided road because doctors are mostly the willing well paid dispensers of these toxic drugs. Doctors are part of the criminal pharma-medical system (read Gotzsche's "Deadly Medicines and Organised Crime: How Big Pharma Has Corrupted Healthcare").

Way to make me scared of the drugs that are literally keeping me alive. Thanks.

I think you're forgetting that sometimes the benefits outweigh the side effects. For example, people are killed by chemo all the time. Doesn't mean it would be better if they didn't take it. Depression is just as much a disease in need of treatment so cancer is. It's not something that we can snap out of or get over by praying. So what do you want me to do? Stop taking my meds because they have side effects?

When it comes to the pharmaceutical industry effecting doctors decisions to medicate, you're forgetting that I don't live in the United States of No Welfare System. Our medical system is not privatized, it is state owned. This means that the income of our doctors is in no way affected by what or how much medicine they prescribe. The fact that the state pays for the medicine also means that if anything, the interest is that I take as little medicine as possible.
There's a big world outside the US my friend.

Oh, and another thing.
Don't think I'm living in a little rosy red world, trying to avoid knowing the downsides to taking my medicine. I live with the side effects every day. And no, it's not just shaking hands and excessive hunger, it's also strong effects on my brain. But trust me, it's much, much better than the alternative!

Sorry if I'm a little over the top today. Bad day. I have the choice between being grumpy or crying. Been the latter all day. Time for the former.

"I believe that while not all people are essentially good, most are trying" - Adam Savage
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13-02-2017, 01:38 PM
RE: I'm needy
(13-02-2017 01:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-02-2017 01:28 PM)LadyDay Wrote:  Way to make me scared of the drugs that are literally keeping me alive. Thanks.

I ain't afraid of no ghosts. I been psychotropicalparadising for some 40 years now and look at me. .... Consider ... wait, bad example.

Thanks hon for the comfort.

Hopefully my brain will be as nuts as yours in 40 years time!

"I believe that while not all people are essentially good, most are trying" - Adam Savage
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13-02-2017, 01:41 PM
RE: I'm needy



#sigh
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13-02-2017, 01:48 PM
RE: I'm needy
(13-02-2017 01:41 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  


I have a fondness for grumpy old men. My boyfriend is one. Big Grin

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13-02-2017, 05:28 PM
RE: I'm needy
(13-02-2017 01:28 PM)LadyDay Wrote:  
(13-02-2017 12:44 PM)PayZip Wrote:  Your brain is unlikely "safe-ish."

If you read the works of people like Peter Breggin, MD, or Peter Gotzsche, MD, you will recognize that massive harm from psychotropic drugs aren't just coming from SSRIs but other types of drugs.

"Talking to your doctor" is likely going to lead a person down a misguided road because doctors are mostly the willing well paid dispensers of these toxic drugs. Doctors are part of the criminal pharma-medical system (read Gotzsche's "Deadly Medicines and Organised Crime: How Big Pharma Has Corrupted Healthcare").

Way to make me scared of the drugs that are literally keeping me alive. Thanks.

I think you're forgetting that sometimes the benefits outweigh the side effects. For example, people are killed by chemo all the time. Doesn't mean it would be better if they didn't take it. Depression is just as much a disease in need of treatment as cancer is. It's not something that we can snap out of or get over by praying. So what do you want me to do? Stop taking my meds because they have side effects?

When it comes to the pharmaceutical industry effecting doctors decisions to medicate, you're forgetting that I don't live in the United States of No Welfare System. Our medical system is not privatized, it is state owned. This means that the income of our doctors is in no way affected by what or how much medicine they prescribe. The fact that the state pays for the medicine also means that if anything, the interest is that I take as little medicine as possible.
There's a big world outside the US my friend.

I'm not forgetting anything, "my friend.". You seem to have a hard time looking at reality. You defend against it by keep coming back at me with misguided or wrong arguments.

Example: "sometimes the benefits outweigh the side effects. For example, people are killed by chemo all the time. Doesn't mean it would be better if they didn't take it."

Solid scientific data had shown back in the 60s that people who didn't submit themselves to orthodox cancer treatments lived longer than those who did. Naturally, the big medical business ignored that type of truthful facts. I could list many other such examples from more present times in terms of the alleged value of official medical treatments.

Example: "Depression is just as much a disease in need of treatment as cancer is. It's not something that we can snap out of or get over by praying. So what do you want me to do? Stop taking my meds because they have side effects?"

Is treating a disease with things that are proven highly toxic with questionable benefits reasonable? Is it logical to conclude that taking poisons for an extended time period will make you well? Properly consumed medical drugs of all types cause a medical holocaust each year. Your conclusion: let's keep taking them because the medical cartel tells me they do more good than harm.

Example: "Our medical system is not privatized, it is state owned. This means that the income of our doctors is in no way affected by what or how much medicine they prescribe. The fact that the state pays for the medicine also means that if anything, the interest is that I take as little medicine as possible.
There's a big world outside the US my friend."

It's a global world dominated by multinational corporations, including the allopathic medical business. Do you really think it's coincidence that in your country most, if not all, official medical treatments come from allopathic medicine? Over 20 years ago the book "The Medical Mafia" by Ghislaine Lanctot, MD, had discussed how this criminal game works on a global scale.

You simply repeat the hype and mantras of glorified medicine and a corporatist world. I showed you some sources to hopefully get your views more aligned and rectified with reality. But you keep putting obstacles in your own path. But then.... most folks can't handle the real truth.
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13-02-2017, 07:33 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2017 07:48 PM by adey67.)
RE: I'm needy
Yeah its all a conspiracy... Not. As a qualified nurse suffering from depression and anxiety I can categorically say I'm better off on my meds and what's with this crap about chemo ? Citing anonymous research done fifty odd years ago is horribly out of date to say the least and
is therefore invalid. Please provide links to said research I could use a good laugh.
Let me guess....you're an antivaxer too right ?
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13-02-2017, 08:39 PM
RE: I'm needy
(13-02-2017 07:33 PM)adey67 Wrote:  Yeah its all a conspiracy... Not. As a qualified nurse suffering from depression and anxiety I can categorically say I'm better off on my meds and what's with this crap about chemo ? Citing anonymous research done fifty odd years ago is horribly out of date to say the least and
is therefore invalid. Please provide links to said research I could use a good laugh.
Let me guess....you're an antivaxer too right ?

Lol. I've cited several works. You've cited zero. Only your personal experience with meds which could likely be due to the placebo effect.

And in your "scientific" zeal you evidently need to resort to slanderous language and ad hominem attacks as if that's diminishes the actual reality. Yeah, you are awfully convincing with using defamation and one (your own) anectodal account. Or singling out the "anonymous research done fifty odd years ago" and ignoring the specific works I've clearly referenced. That's a person who wants to mislead from, and twist, what I had stated rather than approach it with intellectual honesty.

I'm getting the hunch that this forum strongly attracts dogmatic, mean-spirited, non-thinking atheists rather than open-minded, logical, thinking atheists. In that case I won't waste more of my precious time. Lol.
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13-02-2017, 08:52 PM
RE: I'm needy
(13-02-2017 05:28 PM)PayZip Wrote:  Solid scientific data had shown back in the 60s that people who didn't submit themselves to orthodox cancer treatments lived longer than those who did.

Would like to see a citation on this, rather than just an assertion, as the NIH says differently, especially given that chemotherapy as cancer treatment was in its infancy.

Quote:In the mid-1960s, clinical investigation of combination chemotherapy, using multiple drugs with different mechanisms of action, in the treatment of cancer was just beginning. Clinical studies of anticancer vaccines (treatment or prevention) had not yet begun.

Also,
Quote:In 1975, the incidence rate for all cancers combined in the United States was 400 new cases for every 100,000 people in the population; the mortality rate was 199 deaths for every 100,000 persons... In 2007, the latest year for which we have updated statistics, the U.S. incidence rate for all cancers combined was 461 new cases diagnosed for every 100,000 people in the population; the mortality rate was 178 deaths for every 100,000 persons.

Among adults diagnosed with cancer during the period from 1974 through 1976, the 5-year relative survival rate for all cancers combined was 50%. Among whites, it was 51%; among blacks, it was approximately 40%... (For 2007, the last year there are updated stats) Among adults, the 5-year relative survival rate for all cancers combined is now approximately 68%; among whites, it’s about 69%; among blacks, it’s about 59%. The improvements in survival seen since the mid-1970s reflect progress in diagnosing certain cancers, such as prostate cancer, at earlier stages and improvements in treatment.

So either you're getting your data from a different source (one very possibly beholden to the multi-billion dollar "natural" or "supplement" industry) or you're just wrong.
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13-02-2017, 08:57 PM
RE: I'm needy
(13-02-2017 05:28 PM)PayZip Wrote:  
(13-02-2017 01:28 PM)LadyDay Wrote:  Way to make me scared of the drugs that are literally keeping me alive. Thanks.

I think you're forgetting that sometimes the benefits outweigh the side effects. For example, people are killed by chemo all the time. Doesn't mean it would be better if they didn't take it. Depression is just as much a disease in need of treatment as cancer is. It's not something that we can snap out of or get over by praying. So what do you want me to do? Stop taking my meds because they have side effects?

When it comes to the pharmaceutical industry effecting doctors decisions to medicate, you're forgetting that I don't live in the United States of No Welfare System. Our medical system is not privatized, it is state owned. This means that the income of our doctors is in no way affected by what or how much medicine they prescribe. The fact that the state pays for the medicine also means that if anything, the interest is that I take as little medicine as possible.
There's a big world outside the US my friend.

I'm not forgetting anything, "my friend.". You seem to have a hard time looking at reality. You defend against it by keep coming back at me with misguided or wrong arguments.

Example: "sometimes the benefits outweigh the side effects. For example, people are killed by chemo all the time. Doesn't mean it would be better if they didn't take it."

Solid scientific data had shown back in the 60s that people who didn't submit themselves to orthodox cancer treatments lived longer than those who did. Naturally, the big medical business ignored that type of truthful facts. I could list many other such examples from more present times in terms of the alleged value of official medical treatments.

Example: "Depression is just as much a disease in need of treatment as cancer is. It's not something that we can snap out of or get over by praying. So what do you want me to do? Stop taking my meds because they have side effects?"

Is treating a disease with things that are proven highly toxic with questionable benefits reasonable? Is it logical to conclude that taking poisons for an extended time period will make you well? Properly consumed medical drugs of all types cause a medical holocaust each year. Your conclusion: let's keep taking them because the medical cartel tells me they do more good than harm.

Example: "Our medical system is not privatized, it is state owned. This means that the income of our doctors is in no way affected by what or how much medicine they prescribe. The fact that the state pays for the medicine also means that if anything, the interest is that I take as little medicine as possible.
There's a big world outside the US my friend."

It's a global world dominated by multinational corporations, including the allopathic medical business. Do you really think it's coincidence that in your country most, if not all, official medical treatments come from allopathic medicine? Over 20 years ago the book "The Medical Mafia" by Ghislaine Lanctot, MD, had discussed how this criminal game works on a global scale.

You simply repeat the hype and mantras of glorified medicine and a corporatist world. I showed you some sources to hopefully get your views more aligned and rectified with reality. But you keep putting obstacles in your own path. But then.... most folks can't handle the real truth.

Wrong forum section for this. Make a new one in a different section. Mods, clean up on aisle 5.

#sigh
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13-02-2017, 10:05 PM
RE: [split] I'm needy/psychotropic drug debate
(11-02-2017 10:18 PM)PayZip Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 10:08 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  SSRIs made me sick as a dog. After a month of hell or so trying various SSRIs witch doctor started thinking maybe it's not that I don't have enough serotonin, maybe I have too much. So he started dicking with my dopamine instead. Much better. Technology needs to come up with blood test indicators which correlate with neurotransmitter levels soon so we can do away with this trial and error business.

I'm not surprised to hear that "SSRIs made you sick as a dog."

The "serotonin-happiness" mantra, just like the mechanistic simplistic "chemical imbalance" idea, seem to be almost entirely an all-too convenient invention of the medical-pharma business, which allowed them to sell their highly profitable antidepressant drugs, such as SSRIs.
circulation in the brain, hypertension, cancer, and other less than "happy" effects

Citations are required.

Quote:Yet a sizable volume of sound research studies demonstrated that increasing serotonin and tryptophan either with drugs or supplements is linked to brain dysfunction, stress hormone release, cognitive deficits, inflammation, impaired blood circulation in the brain, hypertension, cancer, and other less than "happy" effects

Citations are required.

Quote:What we really need, for starters, is for most people to wake up and see that orthodox medicine is a criminal enterprise.

Science-based medicine works. Do you believe you have something better?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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