[split] I need to rant to other atheists.
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11-06-2014, 07:25 AM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(11-06-2014 04:50 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 01:11 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  But if you're married with the woman being told that she must be submissive to her husband and both of them must be submissive to God then this means that there is greater chance of there being penetrative sex and thus child birth. Especially for Catholics who are told that contraceptives are a sin.

Now maybe you are like me and don't have a strong sex drive or the need to act upon it, but many people do. If you lead a church and preach that masturbation is wrong then many of your congregation will be those who need to relieve their drives in ways other than through nocturnal emmisions.

If you deliberately refrain from masturbation even though you want to do it then you are also collaborating with this selfish act.

One reason I do not masturbate is because I am in a loving, committed relstionship with a beautiful woman who I love who God has brought into my life.

Out of respect for her, I refrain from masturbating because if I were to masturbate it would be as if I had cheated on her. I do not want to do that because I love her.

Some may say, well just don't think about anything while you do it. To which I would respond, that is not something I wish to do.

Some may say, well think about your girl. To which I would respond, doing thus would be no different than committing pre-marital sex.

So I do not want to do that.

So out of love and respect, I refrain and delight to. I enjoy exercising self control and self denial. I feel better physically, emotionally, and spiritually by living a chaste and pure life in this area.

It is very tough yea impossible for me to do in my own strength, but I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Thus no one is "controlling me". I answer to no priest nor do I do what I do because a pastor has ordered me to. I do what I do freely and gratefully and thank God for the opportunity to deny my own lustful passions. In so doing, paradoxically, I am edified and strengthened whilst simultaneously fulfilling my obligation to my beautiful girlfriend.

She must be in love with your sparkling personality. Or she's cheating on you. Tongue
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11-06-2014, 07:43 AM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(10-06-2014 03:31 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 02:56 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  Then please provide the 'correct' definition of selfish. Here's what I'm using:

'concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others'

When I play guitar in my room, I am concerned only with myself. I am trying to improve a skill of mine. I do not think of others when I am playing guitar and I do it strictly for my own enjoyment without regard for others. My guitar music does not help a single person. This fits perfectly within the definition of selfishness.

I could turn my amp up and annoy my neighbors. This also fits perfectly within the definition of selfishness.

Note that selfishness doesn't have to be harmful to others; it is simply an action performed without regards to others, for self-benefit. It is also not a permanent state.

To think all selfish behavior is bad is ridiculous. Religion has tacked a bunch of baggage onto the pursuit of happiness and turned it into some sort of sin. No thank you.

this whole discussion started when I asked the questions:

Why not live a life of utter self-denial and self sacrifice so that those around you who you encounter on a day to day basis may be edified and built up and encouraged?

Why not give to those who are in need without expecting anything in return? Why not love your enemies and bless those who curse you?

Why not seek to always do that which is right for the sake of righteousness?

Why not love your neighbor as yourself and always be mindful of other people and esteem others more highly than yourself?


A true scotsman responded by saying

"Because that is the life of a sacrificial animal. Because those ideas are unspeakably evil. It is the morality of death......What is wrong with your own happiness being your highest purpose in life? Why do we ever need to sacrifice? Why not enjoy your life and use your mind to the fullest to achieve your own purpose neither sacrificing yourself to others or others to yourself?"

Now, you are wrong in thinking that I have something against you playing the guitar. When I say that real men are selfless and not selfish, I am not saying that real men never do things for themselves.

What I am saying is that real men do not live selfish LIVES. They do not make it their life's end to do whatever they please whenever they please at the expense of other people. They do not make a habit of placing their own wants and needs before those around them. I denounce the ideology that a selfish lifestyle is something virtuous. NOTICE I SAID LIFESTYLE.

I paint oil landscapes and play the guitar. I also like sportbikes. But I do not order my life around these things at the expense of other people. I do not think life is all about me and about what I want or what I need. That is what I denounce and that is the selfishness I speak out against.

Real men do not live for themselves at the expense of others.

That is something that children do that do not know any better or know better but do not care. Either way, it is not virtuous. It is cowardly and self-centered.

But heck, in a world where each is left to do what he wills, this is all men really have to live for.

WOW! This post makes me smile so much. I was already planning to respond to extravagant Mr. E Walker on a topic he keeps repeated, which he repeats here, but this post is the perfect ideal spot.

It's so coincidentally compacted it makes me giggle. He acknowledges how his arguments developed when A TRUE SCOTSMAN responded to him... then he goes on to keep making the same No true Scotsman fallacy I was eager to point out about his posts. Delicious magnificence by this proselytizing poster, well done.

To simply state the point, stop with the "real man" concept which is a fallacy. If you want to have any possibility of seeming like a sensible adult, talk like a sensible adult and make points that are sound and validity. Try to say respectable men or honorable men, something you actually mean other than a false concept.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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11-06-2014, 08:00 AM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(11-06-2014 04:50 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  One reason I do not masturbate is because I am in a loving, committed relstionship with a beautiful woman who I love who God has brought into my life.

Out of respect for her, I refrain from masturbating because if I were to masturbate it would be as if I had cheated on her. I do not want to do that because I love her.

I understand that my husband has a higher sex drive than me. My sex drive is almost non-existent. I encourage him to masturbate. To make it more of a shared activity I sometimes watch as he does it or finish him off myself. Occasionally we make love. I actually prefer him to have masturbated a short time before we make love because then it is easier on me (I'll spare you the details).

What does your wife think about this? Have you asked her what she would prefer?

(11-06-2014 04:50 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Some may say, well think about your girl. To which I would respond, doing thus would be no different than committing pre-marital sex.

That does not make sense.
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11-06-2014, 08:10 AM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(11-06-2014 07:43 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 03:31 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  this whole discussion started when I asked the questions:

Why not live a life of utter self-denial and self sacrifice so that those around you who you encounter on a day to day basis may be edified and built up and encouraged?

Why not give to those who are in need without expecting anything in return? Why not love your enemies and bless those who curse you?

Why not seek to always do that which is right for the sake of righteousness?

Why not love your neighbor as yourself and always be mindful of other people and esteem others more highly than yourself?


A true scotsman responded by saying

"Because that is the life of a sacrificial animal. Because those ideas are unspeakably evil. It is the morality of death......What is wrong with your own happiness being your highest purpose in life? Why do we ever need to sacrifice? Why not enjoy your life and use your mind to the fullest to achieve your own purpose neither sacrificing yourself to others or others to yourself?"

Now, you are wrong in thinking that I have something against you playing the guitar. When I say that real men are selfless and not selfish, I am not saying that real men never do things for themselves.

What I am saying is that real men do not live selfish LIVES. They do not make it their life's end to do whatever they please whenever they please at the expense of other people. They do not make a habit of placing their own wants and needs before those around them. I denounce the ideology that a selfish lifestyle is something virtuous. NOTICE I SAID LIFESTYLE.

I paint oil landscapes and play the guitar. I also like sportbikes. But I do not order my life around these things at the expense of other people. I do not think life is all about me and about what I want or what I need. That is what I denounce and that is the selfishness I speak out against.

Real men do not live for themselves at the expense of others.

That is something that children do that do not know any better or know better but do not care. Either way, it is not virtuous. It is cowardly and self-centered.

But heck, in a world where each is left to do what he wills, this is all men really have to live for.

WOW! This post makes me smile so much. I was already planning to respond to extravagant Mr. E Walker on a topic he keeps repeated, which he repeats here, but this post is the perfect ideal spot.

It's so coincidentally compacted it makes me giggle. He acknowledges how his arguments developed when A TRUE SCOTSMAN responded to him... then he goes on to keep making the same No true Scotsman fallacy I was eager to point out about his posts. Delicious magnificence by this proselytizing poster, well done.

To simply state the point, stop with the "real man" concept which is a fallacy. If you want to have any possibility of seeming like a sensible adult, talk like a sensible adult and make points that are sound and validity. Try to say respectable men or honorable men, something you actually mean other than a false concept.

Ok.

I respect all men as human beings created in the image of God. I may not agree with their views at times. But I respect the man as I believe is only right.

An honorable man is one who aims to so order his life that he is able to love his neighbor as he loves himself.

I do not think an ego centric self centered selfish man can do this. He may at times act selflessly i.e. putting himself in harms way to save a child about to be run over by a car for example out of some gut reaction he may have at the moment, but on the whole, the selfish man lives only for himself. He orders his life as if his desires and wishes and needs supercede those of everyone else. He sets himself up as a god who in his own eyes, is worthy of worship. So he worships himself. He may not demand worship from anyone else but nevertheless he worships himself. And when given the choice, he will always act in a manner that is in his own best interest.

I would hate to have such a woman or man watching over my child or teaching my child at school. I would hate to be in need and such a one be the only hope I had.

Imagine living in a world where men are praised for abandoning their children in their homes while they themselves flee for safety as it burns. Imagine a world wherein men are praised for running away from the battle lines as the enemy invades their homeland. Imagine a world wherein women are praised for fleeing for safety from a school where people are being shot up and leaving behind their helpless students to fend for themselves.

You might as well try to imagine a world wherein two and two is five.

Such people would be rightly labeled as cowards, not honorable men and women.

You may think it just fine to be a selfish coward. Maybe you do not. Maybe you agree with me.

Either way, I respect you.
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11-06-2014, 08:15 AM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(11-06-2014 08:00 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 04:50 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  One reason I do not masturbate is because I am in a loving, committed relstionship with a beautiful woman who I love who God has brought into my life.

Out of respect for her, I refrain from masturbating because if I were to masturbate it would be as if I had cheated on her. I do not want to do that because I love her.

I understand that my husband has a higher sex drive than me. My sex drive is almost non-existent. I encourage him to masturbate. To make it more of a shared activity I sometimes watch as he does it or finish him off myself. Occasionally we make love. I actually prefer him to have masturbated a short time before we make love because then it is easier on me (I'll spare you the details).

What does your wife think about this? Have you asked her what she would prefer?

(11-06-2014 04:50 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Some may say, well think about your girl. To which I would respond, doing thus would be no different than committing pre-marital sex.

That does not make sense.

I am not married.

She loves the fact that I refrain. She does also. She said she has never met a man that is more concerned about her feelings than his own. She said she has never met a man who desires to respect her and be as mindful of her feelings as I am.
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11-06-2014, 08:34 AM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(11-06-2014 08:15 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 08:00 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  I understand that my husband has a higher sex drive than me. My sex drive is almost non-existent. I encourage him to masturbate. To make it more of a shared activity I sometimes watch as he does it or finish him off myself. Occasionally we make love. I actually prefer him to have masturbated a short time before we make love because then it is easier on me (I'll spare you the details).

What does your wife think about this? Have you asked her what she would prefer?


That does not make sense.

I am not married.

She loves the fact that I refrain. She does also. She said she has never met a man that is more concerned about her feelings than his own. She said she has never met a man who desires to respect her and be as mindful of her feelings as I am.

Ah, so she is imaginary. That explains a lot.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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11-06-2014, 08:42 AM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(11-06-2014 08:34 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 08:15 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I am not married.

She loves the fact that I refrain. She does also. She said she has never met a man that is more concerned about her feelings than his own. She said she has never met a man who desires to respect her and be as mindful of her feelings as I am.

Ah, so she is imaginary. That explains a lot.

He lives in imaginary, why hot her too.
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11-06-2014, 08:59 AM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(10-06-2014 12:20 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  redefining selfishness to equate to some "rational self interest" in such a way as the gentleman has done is to not talk about selfishness at all.

according to this definition I act according to rational self interest by living a life of self denial and self sacrifice for I have paradoxically found that it is in my best interest to live in an unselfish manner.

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It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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11-06-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(10-06-2014 12:26 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 12:09 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  It appears the following occupations are selfish and do not contribute to society as they do not involve great personal risk:

School teacher
Garbage man
Priest
Home builder
Engineer
Scientist
Therapist
Artist
Personal trainer
Vet

another ridiculous post. just because someone has a job that is dangerous does not mean they are selfless.

Incidentally, here in America, it is becoming increasingly dangerous to be a school teacher. Just this minute a news report has indicated that at least one person has been shot to death at an Oregon High School.

And what the fuck job do you do, asshole, that have the gall to presume sit in judgment over us and the rest of the world? Do you even have a job at all?



(10-06-2014 12:28 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 12:22 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Demonizing self happiness and fulfillment only works on children, which is why you deluded control freaks need to get them while they are young. Also, all evangelism is for selfish reasons whether you realize this or not.

i demonize neither.

I just see them differently than you. I am both happy and quite fulfilled. Nor do I see the pursuit of happiness and fulfillment as evil in and of itself.

If you were happy or fulfilled, you wouldn't be trolling miserably here in this forum, moron.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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11-06-2014, 09:17 AM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(10-06-2014 12:55 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 12:40 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  Ridiculous my ass. Just a few posts back you made a comment that "real men" put themselves in harms way to give peace of mind to those who cannot help themselves. Here is the quote for your reference:


Can a doctor, vet, or school teacher "live as a man"? What if they chose their profession because they wanted to do it, and not because it offered public service? What if someone becomes a doctor because they're interested in surgery and how internal organs work? Can a doctor be selfish because of their personal motivations?

You've actually been taught that any sort of self-seeking is shameful and selfish. To take your extreme approach, if we all rejected any deliberate pursuit of happiness through self-seeking actions, we would have a world of individuals devoid of art, expression, creativity, and love.

If you cannot love yourself, if you are actually ashamed to pursue any action that leads to your happiness, how can you possibly understand what it is to bring joy to others?

Real men are those who defend the defenseless, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and love their neighbor as themselves. Real men are selfless not selfish.

By-rote, regurgitated word salad out of your fairy tale book. Just who is naked here and needs to be clothed, idiot? And you certainly don't love US, your NEIGHBORS, since you come here every day and troll and make sad attempts to insult and belittle us. And let's dispense with the sexist "real men" bullshit as well. We don't need your fucking fairy stories to act compassionately towards others, not do we need to all be policemen and -women.

Let's look at your level of delusion: Do you think that, because we are atheists and don't believe in your superstitious horseshit, we would simply walk away from a situation in which another needed help? How is it that you correlate not believing your fairy stories with not having any moral character, compassion, altruism? Where is your evidence for this, Mr. Black Swan Fallacy? That is simply your straw man, and it backfires in your face every time a cowardly xtian shies away from it, which is absolutely a commonplace occurrence, Mr. No True Scotsman.


Quote:To take my post and try to use it to claim I said only real men are those that have certain jobs is ridiculous.

Can you all just feel the "love" here?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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