[split] I need to rant to other atheists.
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12-06-2014, 04:03 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
You wrote: Since, on a metaphysical naturalistic view of reality, you cannot provide a ground for objective moral values and duties

There you go again stealing concepts from other non subjective philosophies.

It is only on a naturalistic metaphysics that objectivity is possible. Your claim of a supernatural consciousness that created and maintains existence by an act of conscious will is a direct contradiction of the law of the primacy of existence on which the concept "objectivity" depends. Once again you are reversing the proper subject/object relationship. You are forgetting that this relationship is directly observable and so there is no excuse for this.

We can provide a ground for objective moral values and it is the law of identity and the primacy of existence over consciousness, both of which your imaginary god contradict.

It is your worldview that offers no grounds for objective moral values and makes them impossible.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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12-06-2014, 04:06 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 02:57 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 12:45 PM)Dom Wrote:  Now there, that's why religion is scary and evil. Who is going to decide who gets killed? Do we do it like the folks who killed "witches" in Salem? Perhaps the crusades? Do we have them drink poisoned coolaid?

Stating that sometimes murder is the right thing to do makes you a dangerous person. It's bad for society to let you roam the streets, who knows when you get it in your head that Jesus spoke to you and told you to kill heathens or whores or the infirm or the mentally handicapped and what have you.

I suggest you rethink your opinion that sometimes killing people is the RIGHT thing to do.

I suggest you stop twisting what I said. I said sometimes killing is the right thing to do. Soldiers who kill terrorists and eliminate threats to the security of the society in which you live in are not murderers. Nor are the authorities who kill dangerous criminals who are raging and shooting kids and anyone they see.

Your very ability to sit in the comfort of your home and misrepresent what I am saying on this forum is due to the fact that there are people out there protecting you by killing and eliminating those evil men who would rape you and your family members for days on end and then leave you all to rot as if you were a piece of trash.

You are living in a fairytale if you think that taking life is always murder.


We were not talking about the law, we were talking about someone who ordered people killed for NOT WORSHIPING him! BIIIIIG difference.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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12-06-2014, 04:07 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 04:03 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  You wrote: Since, on a metaphysical naturalistic view of reality, you cannot provide a ground for objective moral values and duties

There you go again stealing concepts from other non subjective philosophies.

It is only on a naturalistic metaphysics that objectivity is possible. Your claim of a supernatural consciousness that created and maintains existence by an act of conscious will is a direct contradiction of the law of the primacy of existence on which the concept "objectivity" depends. Once again you are reversing the proper subject/object relationship. You are forgetting that this relationship is directly observable and so there is no excuse for this.

We can provide a ground for objective moral values and it is the law of identity and the primacy of existence over consciousness, both of which your imaginary god contradict.

It is your worldview that offers no grounds for objective moral values and makes them impossible.

how is the law of identity the grounds for objective moral values and duties?

Incidentally, it seems you affirm premise two of the moral argument and thus, if this is true, you have to show how objective moral values and duties are more plausibly grounded in the law of identity.

I will be waiting.
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12-06-2014, 04:07 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 03:52 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 03:26 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  My point hasn't changed. All you know is your hatred and your ignorant arrogance. You don't know what the fuck love for your fellow man is.

I hate no one.

Your hatred toward the good people here is clear in your every action and your every post. You are lying again and everyone here can see it.


(12-06-2014 03:55 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 03:29 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  They were killed for being human, simply being alive, you weaseling son of a bitch.



Hey, lookie here, asswipe:

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)



They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.



Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.



(Judges 21:10-24 NLT)



So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.



The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."



Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)



As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.




And fucking so on. You really ought to read your fairy tale book, moron.


We have already been through this before with you. Which you ignored, which is what you always do when your bullshit assertions are destroyed.

And once again my point is reinforced. None of the above supports the assertion that God was responsible for killing people because they were human beings. There were specific reasons which you need to furnish along with the texts found in other texts which have been omitted.

Once again your prove yourself to be a lying, weaseling piece of shit. The men and boys and women who were not virgins were specifically killed because they were men and boys and women who were not virgins. The girls were kept as sex slaves.

I thought that deceit was the main characteristic that you assholes assigned to your "Satan" figure. You are fucking despicable.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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12-06-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 04:07 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 03:52 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I hate no one.

Your hatred toward the good people here is clear in your every action and your every post. You are lying again and everyone here can see it.


(12-06-2014 03:55 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  And once again my point is reinforced. None of the above supports the assertion that God was responsible for killing people because they were human beings. There were specific reasons which you need to furnish along with the texts found in other texts which have been omitted.

Once again your prove yourself to be a lying, weaseling piece of shit. The men and boys and women who were not virgins were specifically killed because they were men and boys and women who were not virgins. The girls were kept as sex slaves.

I thought that deceit was the main characteristic that you assholes assigned to your "Satan" figure. You are fucking despicable.

Show me the verse where it states that God ordered the men boys and women to be killed because they were men boys and women.

Show me.
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12-06-2014, 04:14 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2014 04:25 PM by kim.)
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 04:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 04:01 PM)kim Wrote:  Jesus.

What about Him?

He was set up by god to be killed and god assured it. All because he thought human beings sucked... which god also assured.


Unless you've suddenly decided god doesn't make death happen or is unable to prevent death from happening. There are some fairly hefty books quite full of murder assured by god. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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12-06-2014, 04:23 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 04:09 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 04:07 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Your hatred toward the good people here is clear in your every action and your every post. You are lying again and everyone here can see it.



Once again your prove yourself to be a lying, weaseling piece of shit. The men and boys and women who were not virgins were specifically killed because they were men and boys and women who were not virgins. The girls were kept as sex slaves.

I thought that deceit was the main characteristic that you assholes assigned to your "Satan" figure. You are fucking despicable.

Show me the verse where it states that God ordered the men boys and women to be killed because they were men boys and women.

Show me.


Hey, asshole, that wasn't MY claim, that was Kim's. You quibbling over minute details of the mass murders committed by both your fictional deity and its fictional followers is just a red herring. MY point stands: Your fictional deity is a MONSTER, and you are a scoundrel to claim to follow the morals its inventors espouse.


HOWEVER, you are again attempting to dodge the flood story, wherein your fictional deity arbitrarily destroys ALL life on the planet (save for a select few), simply for being alive.

AND you are a fucking hypocrite for demanding that the good people here follow the example of your fictional jeebus' asceticism when you don't hold to it yourself, mister "I love sport bikes".

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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12-06-2014, 04:29 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 04:14 PM)kim Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 04:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  What about Him?

He was set up by god to be killed and god assured it. All because he thought human beings sucked... which god also assured.


Unless you've suddenly decided god doesn't make death happen or is unable to prevent death from happening. There are some fairly hefty books quite full of murder assured by god. Shy

Neither is true. Try again.
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12-06-2014, 04:31 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 04:23 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 04:09 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Show me the verse where it states that God ordered the men boys and women to be killed because they were men boys and women.

Show me.


Hey, asshole, that wasn't MY claim, that was Kim's. You quibbling over minute details of the mass murders committed by both your fictional deity and its fictional followers is just a red herring. MY point stands: Your fictional deity is a MONSTER, and you are a scoundrel to claim to follow the morals its inventors espouse.


HOWEVER, you are again attempting to dodge the flood story, wherein your fictional deity arbitrarily destroys ALL life on the planet (save for a select few), simply for being alive.

AND you are a fucking hypocrite for demanding that the good people here follow the example of your fictional jeebus' asceticism when you don't hold to it yourself, mister "I love sport bikes".

Yes I like sportbikes. I like a lot of things. I also said I am not an ascetic.

Nor did God arbitrarily send a flood upon the earth.


So far you are batting a thousand. Good job!
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12-06-2014, 04:38 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 04:31 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 04:23 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Hey, asshole, that wasn't MY claim, that was Kim's. You quibbling over minute details of the mass murders committed by both your fictional deity and its fictional followers is just a red herring. MY point stands: Your fictional deity is a MONSTER, and you are a scoundrel to claim to follow the morals its inventors espouse.


HOWEVER, you are again attempting to dodge the flood story, wherein your fictional deity arbitrarily destroys ALL life on the planet (save for a select few), simply for being alive.

AND you are a fucking hypocrite for demanding that the good people here follow the example of your fictional jeebus' asceticism when you don't hold to it yourself, mister "I love sport bikes".

Yes I like sportbikes. I like a lot of things. I also said I am not an ascetic.

Your whole line of shit here in this thread has been to demand that the good people here adhere to the asceticism you ascribe to your jeebus character.

YES, it is CLEAR that you don't fucking practice what you fucking preach, hypocrite.


Quote:Nor did God arbitrarily send a flood upon the earth.

--in your STORY -- your deity arbitrarily kills every living thing on the planet that it hasn't chosen to survive. You are quibbling again, practicing the art you assholes ascribe to your Devil figure. Every child and baby who dies in your story has been arbitrarily murdered by your deity.



Quote:So far you are batting a thousand. Good job!

You bet your sorry ass I am. To bad you are too fucking stupid to see that you have been batting zero here all along.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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