[split] I need to rant to other atheists.
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12-06-2014, 04:41 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 04:06 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 02:57 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I suggest you stop twisting what I said. I said sometimes killing is the right thing to do. Soldiers who kill terrorists and eliminate threats to the security of the society in which you live in are not murderers. Nor are the authorities who kill dangerous criminals who are raging and shooting kids and anyone they see.

Your very ability to sit in the comfort of your home and misrepresent what I am saying on this forum is due to the fact that there are people out there protecting you by killing and eliminating those evil men who would rape you and your family members for days on end and then leave you all to rot as if you were a piece of trash.

You are living in a fairytale if you think that taking life is always murder.


We were not talking about the law, we were talking about someone who ordered people killed for NOT WORSHIPING him! BIIIIIG difference.

Well, I guess you're not answering me anymore?

Actually, looks like god is killing all of us. I have a good friend who is very religious. Recently she apparently had some doubts (we do not discuss religion as a rule).

She said: "How come we have to die?"
Me: "huh"?
Her: "Well, I understand that we have to die because Eve ate the apple. But then Jesus came and all our sins were forgiven. So why do we still have to die?"

Good question. What's your answer? I didn't have one for her that accepted her religion as thought base.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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12-06-2014, 05:06 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 04:41 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 04:06 PM)Dom Wrote:  We were not talking about the law, we were talking about someone who ordered people killed for NOT WORSHIPING him! BIIIIIG difference.

Well, I guess you're not answering me anymore?

Actually, looks like god is killing all of us. I have a good friend who is very religious. Recently she apparently had some doubts (we do not discuss religion as a rule).

She said: "How come we have to die?"
Me: "huh"?
Her: "Well, I understand that we have to die because Eve ate the apple. But then Jesus came and all our sins were forgiven. So why do we still have to die?"

Good question. What's your answer? I didn't have one for her that accepted her religion as thought base.

Dying is a consequence of living in a fallen world which is progressively becoming less and less conducive to biological life via the damaging effects of sin.

Christ's death was an atoning work for us in that the sin debt we owed was placed upon Him and He bore our penalty on the tree. But your friend must know that Christ's sacrifice entails much more than just the remission of sins. For Christ was resurrected BODILY from the dead. Thus He is the Firstfruits of those who will be resurrected in like fashion.

So the physical death for the Christian is simply the transition from a temporally and physically binding existence into an eternal and glorified state.
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12-06-2014, 05:12 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2014 05:20 PM by pablo.)
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 05:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 04:41 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, I guess you're not answering me anymore?

Actually, looks like god is killing all of us. I have a good friend who is very religious. Recently she apparently had some doubts (we do not discuss religion as a rule).

She said: "How come we have to die?"
Me: "huh"?
Her: "Well, I understand that we have to die because Eve ate the apple. But then Jesus came and all our sins were forgiven. So why do we still have to die?"

Good question. What's your answer? I didn't have one for her that accepted her religion as thought base.

Dying is a consequence of living in a fallen world which is progressively becoming less and less conducive to biological life via the damaging effects of sin.

Christ's death was an atoning work for us in that the sin debt we owed was placed upon Him and He bore our penalty on the tree. But your friend must know that Christ's sacrifice entails much more than just the remission of sins. For Christ was resurrected BODILY from the dead. Thus He is the Firstfruits of those who will be resurrected in like fashion.

So the physical death for the Christian is simply the transition from a temporally and physically binding existence into an eternal and glorified state.

And lo, The Flying Spaghetti Monster sent unto us His only begotten Bread-sticks, that we may not be hungry until He arrives. (read in the voice of Rocket J. Squirrel)
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12-06-2014, 05:14 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 05:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 04:41 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, I guess you're not answering me anymore?

Actually, looks like god is killing all of us. I have a good friend who is very religious. Recently she apparently had some doubts (we do not discuss religion as a rule).

She said: "How come we have to die?"
Me: "huh"?
Her: "Well, I understand that we have to die because Eve ate the apple. But then Jesus came and all our sins were forgiven. So why do we still have to die?"

Good question. What's your answer? I didn't have one for her that accepted her religion as thought base.

Dying is a consequence of living in a fallen world which is progressively becoming less and less conducive to biological life via the damaging effects of sin.


LOL Non Sequitur. Preposterous Word Salad.


Quote:Christ's death

You have yet to demonstrate that this character actually existed. And of course you still have the whole difficulty of the silly idea of your gawd coming down to earth to sacrifice himself to himself to pay in blood for humans having supposedly fallen into the trap that it laid for them in the first place. It's ludicrous.


Quote:was an atoning work for us in that the sin debt we owed was placed upon Him and He bore our penalty on the tree.

Yes, the trap that your deity supposedly laid for its creations.


Quote: But your friend must know that Christ's sacrifice entails much more than just the remission of sins.

OH, there we go again -- do anything you want -- rape, murder, steal, but just "repent" before you die and you get a ticket to paradise. Fucking idiot.


Quote: For Christ was resurrected BODILY from the dead. Thus He is the Firstfruits of those who will be resurrected in like fashion.

That doesn't even mean anything. And again. Your story is full of holes.



Quote:So the physical death for the Christian is simply the transition from a temporally and physically binding existence into an eternal and glorified state.

...no matter how many babies you rape. Hobo

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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12-06-2014, 05:17 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 04:07 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 04:03 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  You wrote: Since, on a metaphysical naturalistic view of reality, you cannot provide a ground for objective moral values and duties

There you go again stealing concepts from other non subjective philosophies.

It is only on a naturalistic metaphysics that objectivity is possible. Your claim of a supernatural consciousness that created and maintains existence by an act of conscious will is a direct contradiction of the law of the primacy of existence on which the concept "objectivity" depends. Once again you are reversing the proper subject/object relationship. You are forgetting that this relationship is directly observable and so there is no excuse for this.

We can provide a ground for objective moral values and it is the law of identity and the primacy of existence over consciousness, both of which your imaginary god contradict.

It is your worldview that offers no grounds for objective moral values and makes them impossible.

how is the law of identity the grounds for objective moral values and duties?

Incidentally, it seems you affirm premise two of the moral argument and thus, if this is true, you have to show how objective moral values and duties are more plausibly grounded in the law of identity.

I will be waiting.

Because the concept of 'objectivity" depends on and presupposes the law of Identity. It depends on the fact that things (the objects of consciousness) are independent of any consciousness. Violate the law of identity and the primacy of existence which is a corollary to the law of identity and there is no such thing as objectivity.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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12-06-2014, 05:18 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 05:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 04:41 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, I guess you're not answering me anymore?

Actually, looks like god is killing all of us. I have a good friend who is very religious. Recently she apparently had some doubts (we do not discuss religion as a rule).

She said: "How come we have to die?"
Me: "huh"?
Her: "Well, I understand that we have to die because Eve ate the apple. But then Jesus came and all our sins were forgiven. So why do we still have to die?"

Good question. What's your answer? I didn't have one for her that accepted her religion as thought base.

Dying is a consequence of living in a fallen world which is progressively becoming less and less conducive to biological life via the damaging effects of sin.

Christ's death was an atoning work for us in that the sin debt we owed was placed upon Him and He bore our penalty on the tree. But your friend must know that Christ's sacrifice entails much more than just the remission of sins. For Christ was resurrected BODILY from the dead. Thus He is the Firstfruits of those who will be resurrected in like fashion.

So the physical death for the Christian is simply the transition from a temporally and physically binding existence into an eternal and glorified state.

Yabbut, according to my friend, Adam and Eve were immortal until Eve ate an apple from a talking snake inhabited tree.That is when they became mortal and all of us have to suffer it because of her apple.

So when god killed his own son so everyone's sins would be atoned, why didn't that restore us to paradise? After all, we didn't eat apples from that snake tree, and we are only sinners because Eve did. If Eve had not done that, we would all still be in paradise. If we existed at all.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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12-06-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
A dishonest fool through and through, I'm almost sad there is no hell for Jerry to go to. Almost.
Arguing over the finer points of genocide and responsibility. What an utter lack of morality Jerry has.
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12-06-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 05:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Dying is a consequence of living in a fallen world which is progressively becoming less and less conducive to biological life via the damaging effects of sin.

Christ's death was an atoning work for us in that the sin debt we owed was placed upon Him and He bore our penalty on the tree. But your friend must know that Christ's sacrifice entails much more than just the remission of sins. For Christ was resurrected BODILY from the dead. Thus He is the Firstfruits of those who will be resurrected in like fashion.

So the physical death for the Christian is simply the transition from a temporally and physically binding existence into an eternal and glorified state.

I wonder if he ever says anything that is factually accurate. He clearly knows nothing about science and reality, endlessly regurgitating the thinks and writings of other men. I wish there was just enough time after death for this cretinous and dishonest stain of a man to realize just how wrong he is before the light flickers out and The Big Nothing grips him steadfast for the rest of time. That final moment of panic would be rather amusing I think.
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12-06-2014, 06:10 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 05:18 PM)Dom Wrote:  Yabbut, according to my friend, Adam and Eve were immortal until Eve ate an apple from a talking snake inhabited tree.That is when they became mortal and all of us have to suffer it because of her apple.

This is incorrect. They were denied access to the Tree of Life after having fallen which is what ultimately led to their experiencing a physical death. Notice how in verses 22 and 23 of Genesis chapter 3, God states that if they had reached out and taken from the Tree of Life that they would have lived forever in their fallen, sin stricken state.

So it was not because of their partaking of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that they became mortal. Nor was it because the knew the difference between Good and Evil. Nor was it because they had sinned (notice the death that God warned they would experience was a spiritual death i.e. a separation from God and not a physical death).

No. The reason they eventually ended up dying was because God made it impossible for them to access the Tree of Life which would have caused them to live forever in their fallen state. Thus even here it is seen that God is merciful in banishing them from the garden.

(12-06-2014 05:18 PM)Dom Wrote:  So when god killed his own son so everyone's sins would be atoned, why didn't that restore us to paradise?

Even if Christ's death had been specifically for the restoration of man to "paradise", it does not follow that all would be restored to paradise. For in order for Christ's atoning work to be accounted to an individual, one must realize his need for forgiveness and then trust in Christ's finished work on the Cross for the remission of his/her sins. The idea of universalism is not a biblical doctrine. The atoning work is applicable only to the one who accepts the free gift of salvation.


(12-06-2014 05:18 PM)Dom Wrote:  After all, we didn't eat apples from that snake tree, and we are only sinners because Eve did. If Eve had not done that, we would all still be in paradise. If we existed at all.

Well you see Dom that simply is not true.

The Bible never states that we are sinners only because of what Adam and Eve did. The Bible is emphatic on the point that all men are sinners by virtue of the sins they themselves commit. God does not hold us accountable for the sins of our forefathers, but rather, the sins we commit.

We would be in a Garden of Eden like world if and only if no human from Adam's time to our present time ever sinned.

This is what is termed a "necessary condition" and there simply is no reason to think that the billions and billlions of people who have been born since Adam would all freely choose to be obedient to God and never sin. In fact, taking the actions of Adam and Eve in a perfect envirnonment with all that they could ever need or want at their fingertips, we have good reason to think we all would have done the same thing they did. For they sinned in a perfect environment.

So it seems to me that in light of the above, there is no reason to think that we should be living in paradise right now simply because Christ died for the remission of our sins.
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12-06-2014, 06:23 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2014 07:32 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(12-06-2014 06:10 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-06-2014 05:18 PM)Dom Wrote:  So when god killed his own son so everyone's sins would be atoned, why didn't that restore us to paradise?

Even if Christ's death had been specifically for the restoration of man to "paradise", it does not follow that all would be restored to paradise.

The fuck it don't. It entails it. You don't know dick about Barth or Universalism do you? You diminish the sacrifice of The Christ by imposing artificial preconditions on it. Who are you to limit the scope of the sacrifice of The Christ?

(12-06-2014 06:10 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  For in order for Christ's atoning work to be accounted to an individual, one must realize his need for forgiveness and then trust in Christ's finished work on the Cross for the remission of his/her sins. The idea of universalism is not a biblical doctrine. The atoning work is applicable only to the one who accepts the free gift of salvation.

Bullshit useless masochistic self-flagellation 'cause "I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!" But you are right about one thing, Jeremy. You are not worthy. You are nowhere close to being ready to appreciate and understand The Word, let alone live it. Hell, you ain't even in the ballpark. You can't even find the ballpark for fuck's sake. You have the metaphysics of a child.

#sigh
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