[split] I need to rant to other atheists.
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09-06-2014, 08:13 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(09-06-2014 12:18 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-06-2014 12:14 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Probably because all his spokesmen are cunts like you. Drinking Beverage

If that were true, would it be a good reason not to be a follower of Christ?

If so, why?

Oh look. Our pet troll came out of his hole to play with himself again in public.
Why would someone not be a "follower" of Jebus ?
I see you need to find comfort from all your cognitive dissonances by compartmentalizing your doubts, (you do have doubts right ?), and hope to find just one other person who buys as much bullshit as you do,

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-06-2014, 10:36 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(09-06-2014 12:12 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-06-2014 09:13 AM)LadyWallFlower Wrote:  ...I'm not a Christian.

Why are you not a follower of Jesus Christ?

You have yet to demonstrate that such a person existed at all, much less was worth "following".

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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09-06-2014, 10:44 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(09-06-2014 02:36 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-06-2014 12:24 PM)Elskidor Wrote:  The best reason would be because he's a fictional character, and poorly written one at that.

Even if this is true, why not pattern one's life after His?

Why the fuck not live ones own life.


Quote:Why not live a life of utter self-denial...

Because that's utterly fucking stupid.


Quote: and self sacrifice

Because martyrs are attention whores and pity whores. Like you.


Quote: so that those around you who you encounter on a day to day basis may be edified and built up and encouraged?

We can do that without making utter asses out of ourselves like you do.


Quote:Why not give to those who are in need without expecting anything in return?

We already do that, and we don't have to believe in your stupid fucking fairy tale superstitions in order to do that.


Quote: Why not love your enemies and bless those who curse you?

YOU don't love your enemies. You aren't here out of love, and you aren't fooling anyone with your lies that you are.


Quote:Why not seek to always do that which is right for the sake of righteousness?

We can Do The Right Thing without your fairy tale bullshit.


Quote:Why not love your neighbor as yourself

We can do that without your superstitions. And far better than you can.


Quote: and always be mindful of other people and esteem others more highly than yourself?

Don't need no mumbo-jumbo bullshit to do that. And we already do.


Quote:Even if it was proven that Christ was a myth, why not live the way it is claimed He said we should?

Already there. Go the fuck away.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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09-06-2014, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 10-06-2014 04:51 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(09-06-2014 06:51 PM)Charis Wrote:  [Image: Debate-Flow-Chart1.jpg]

Excellent post. It should include something about using bad language.

On another thread I suggested that some Christians were called that without ever having seen the New Testament. Here are some Christians in Egypt who worshipped Serapis and Hadrian wrote about them because they called themselves Christians:


134 CE
Hadrian to Servianus, (Quoted by Giles, ii p86) :
"Egypt, which you commended to me, my dearest Servianus,
I have found to be wholly fickle and inconsistent,
and continually wafted about by every breath of fame.
The worshipers of Serapis (here) are called 'Christians',
and those who are devoted to the god Serapis (I find),
call themselves 'Bishops of Christ'. "

In fact, this Serapis religion was started a few hundred years before Jesus and was spread around the Roman Empire...so, Christians, before Jesus and a connection with Vespasian:

"Serapis was among the international deities whose cult was received and disseminated throughout the Roman Empire, with Anubis sometimes identified with Cerberus. At Rome, Serapis was worshiped in the Iseum Campense, the sanctuary of Isis built during the Second Triumvirate in the Campus Martius. The Roman cults of Isis and Serapis gained in popularity late in the 1st century when Vespasian experienced events he attributed to their miraculous agency while he was in Alexandria, where he stayed before returning to Rome as emperor in 70. From the Flavian Dynasty on, Serapis was one of the deities who might appear on imperial coinage with the reigning emperor.

The main cult at Alexandria survived until the late 4th century, when a Christian mob destroyed the Serapeum of Alexandria in 385, and the cult was part of the general proscription of religions other than approved forms of Christianity under the Theodosian decree." Wiki

The problem with saying anything about "Paul" is that we don't have any historical record of him and if he was writing to "Christian" communities, then he, assuming he was real, could easily predate Jesus and not be writing about him at all.
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09-06-2014, 10:51 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(09-06-2014 02:41 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-06-2014 02:39 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  Jeremy? Why don't YOU?
BTW: Since you're here and seem to have some spare time, why don't you get over to the Boxing Ring?

I seek to live righteously moment by moment in the sight of both God and man.

That is my greatest desire.

Your mythical god doesn't exist, and you fail miserably in the eyes of man. Here you sit, trolling in this forum of good and decent people, making a complete asshole of yourself, pretending you are somehow better than us. That isn't "righteousness", that's asinine and arrogant self-delusion. You have failed miserably, and you continue to fail every time you log onto this forum.


You know, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as you have, they would throw themselves on their swords.

[Image: 9b.jpg]

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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09-06-2014, 11:08 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(09-06-2014 05:26 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  [Image: 258troll_spray.jpg]

Not workin' Dodgy
I'd ask for my money back.

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. ~Mark Twain
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09-06-2014, 11:08 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(09-06-2014 03:19 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-06-2014 03:18 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  Are you incapable of figuring out how to behave without having to consult fairy tales?
I'm going to go with the real life evidence that the followers of jebus have committed some of the worst atrocities in history.

name one atrocity that a follower of Jesus' life and teachings has committed.

Wow. Fuck me, really?Shocking
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09-06-2014, 11:09 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
"Why not live a life of self denial?" Jeremy asks.

Well what does that mean? Should I not eat when hungry? Should I not seek medicine when ill? Clothing when cold? Friendship? Sleep when tired?

That Jeremy is unwise is patently obvious. That he seeks to "edify" others is worrying indeed!

That he believes he has anything of worth to say points at arrogant delusion.

Jeremy. You are unwell. Please seek medical advice.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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09-06-2014, 11:10 PM
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(09-06-2014 03:37 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  A FOLLOWER OF HIS LIFE AND TEACHINGS. LIFE AND TEACHINGS. LIFE AND TEACHINGS. LIFE AND TEACHINGS.
Is that better?

[Image: TrollDetected.png]


[Image: 1013877_812010532160725_8595985913727619775_n.png]

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. ~Mark Twain
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09-06-2014, 11:17 PM (This post was last modified: 09-06-2014 11:31 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: [split] I need to rant to other atheists.
(09-06-2014 04:19 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  *Quoted text redacted. Click above green arrow to see what he said*

And if someone reads the Bible and, unlike you, interprets that the message of Jesus is that he didn't come to bring peace, but rather the sword?

Or if they would decry you as not a true follower of Jesus, because you haven't sold everything you own and given the money to the poor? (You seem to have a computer, at the very least. Those things are pricey, man. Think how many kids in Africa you could feed with one of those things. Maybe you should sell it, give the money to the poor, and do without the internet.)

In any event, I will partially agree with you. Someone who really adheres to the Golden Rule will tend to treat others pretty darn well, and will tend to avoid atrocities. This is true whether one comes to the Golden Rule through Christian religion, or through Taoism (roughly half a millennia before Christ's purported teachings, give or take), or through Confucius or Mozi (also centuries earlier), or even the code of Ma'at (many millennia earlier). Similarly, wishing goodwill towards one's enemies makes people less likely to slaughter them... again, regardless of whether one gets that from Jesus, or from Taoism, or from Buddhism.

But there's that one persnickety additional quality, which eliminates the others from your definition of a true follower of Christ: Loving God. This would seem to have very little to do with why attrocities are avoided, but I'll agree it does (with proper definition of which God we're talking about) narrow things down to the Abrahamic traditions, at least.

So I'll grant that Christians (identifying Christians broadly) who place special emphasis on those particular passages are less likely to commit atrocities.

But what about Zakieya Avery and Monifa Sanford? To all appearances, they were motivated by what they saw as the well-being of the children they are alleged to have injured and murdered, and they did so out of love for God and to bring the children to see God. If they were to say that they would have wished the same thing done to them under those circumstances, would they not qualify as true followers of Christ under the standard you've described?

For that matter, what ABOUT the Inquisition? I'm referring to the Catholic Inquisition here, not the Spanish one. Its central conceit was that torture leading to confession of sin was ultimately an act of love towards the victim, because it helped to spare them from eternal hellfire. There were a great many other motivations at work there -- worldly power, wealth, probably a few diseased minds -- but amongst all those torturers, can we not imagine at least a handful that did what they did out of genuine love, wanting what they believed was best for their victims? That they did act for love of God, seeking to stamp out what they were certain was heresy against that God? Can we not imagine they would have wanted the same done to them, if circumstances were reversed? And if we can imagine this, how can we look at their actions and conclude, with certainty, that they did not meet your standard of being true followers of Christ?

I would suggest that your definition is too narrow to avoid atrocities. Benign intentions and empathy are all well and good, but if we do not understand the consequences of our actions, we cannot choose our actions to advance someone else's well-being. If we persist in believing in fables, it will lead us to child abuse and torture, even with the purest of intentions. There must also be a determined pursuit of knowledge about HOW our actions affect others, about whether there are truly demons to be driven out, or whether there is truly a hell worth torturing a person free of, before we can avoid the sort of disasters you use to identify someone as not a follower of Christ's life and teachings.

And also, what about a Muslim, who regards Jesus as being at the very least a wise prophet and an excellent role model, even if he does not regard Jesus as the son of God or a flawless prophet. Suppose that, whatever the foibles of more extremist Muslims, THIS one is a pacifist. He has a complete love of Allah, whom he identifies as the God of Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus, and Mohammed (even if Mohammed's the one who got it right at the end and Jesus wasn't), and all the others, and if he identifies this God by another name, so do speakers of most other languages. Suppose that this Muslim also follows the Golden rule, and also wishes well to his enemies? Would he then be a true follower of Christ's life and teachings? Your definition suggests so. Or what about a religious Jew, who thinks Jesus was just a rabbi, but one who said a lot of good things, and who adheres to Jesus's philosophy of universal love and reciprocal treatment as valuable teachings? This seems to meet the standards you have provided. Is this Jew, who denies any claim of personal salvation through or divinity of Christ, still a true follower of Christ's life and teachings Or is your definition perhaps too broad, in addition to being too narrow?

In any event, I'll add this to the pile as yet another definition of what a "true" Christian is. Don't expect me to remember it. It's a damn big pile and I have trouble remembering them all, much less keeping straight in my head which definition belongs to which person. Perhaps you people should get together and actually get your stories straight before coming around to pester us. (After all, they're already convinced that your god exists and your Bible is real, that's like 90% of your work already done, isn't it? Surely a more efficient use of your time.)
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