[split] Ignorance about anarchism
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20-05-2014, 11:03 PM
RE: [split] Ignorance about anarchism
(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. ~Marcus Tullius Cicero

And the award for Most Oblivious Internet Ideologue goes to....

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21-05-2014, 11:24 AM
RE: [split] Ignorance about anarchism
(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(20-05-2014 06:39 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I cannot parse this nonsense. It is in literally no way a coherent response to anything EK just said.

Yes, he was referring to Switzerland as a Northern European country with strong regulation. He was obviously confusing it with Sweden.

He did no such thing; that's just you being you (ie, unable to read).

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Source: "So what happens if you are, say, a young mother in Switzerland with a little baby but no husband or similar on the scene and nowhere to live? There is no countrywide answer to this question because it is not dealt with on a national basis. It is not even dealt with by one of the 26 cantons. It is dealt with by your local commune. There are 2,900 of these and their population can be anything from 30 to 10,000 or more."

Hmm. Let's see what the actual article is called:
The Spectator Wrote:Swiss welfare runs like clockwork

Wait, what was that?

The Spectator Wrote:Swiss welfare runs like clockwork

Hmm. One more time?

The Spectator Wrote:Swiss welfare runs like clockwork

Hmm. That must indeed be about how they have no welfare systems.

Sorry, what were you saying?

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  "So what happens if you are, say, a young mother in Switzerland with a little baby but no husband or similar on the scene and nowhere to live? There is no countrywide answer to this question because it is not dealt with on a national basis. It is not even dealt with by one of the 26 cantons. It is dealt with by your local commune. There are 2,900 of these and their population can be anything from 30 to 10,000 or more."

There is no countrywide answer this question anywhere because other nations are not the unitary monolithic phantasms which populate your delusional hysteria.

Go figure.

Not that that pull quote has anything in particular to do with the existence of welfare systems, except of course for the part where they totally do exist, in direct opposition to your original statement, which you conveniently ignore.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Another study:

From 28 years ago. Gee, that sounds timely. Maybe it's time to update the copypasta?

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  "SWITZERLAND is not often thought of when we discuss the welfare state. In many respects it is not a welfare state... But in one critical respect it has achieved what the United States and European nations traditionally defined as welfare states have not: It has all but eliminated “welfare dependency,” or intergenerational poverty, and it has done this in a strikingly different manner than other developed societies."

It's nice that you've read the first page. Let's look a little further...
"The Swiss have established a far-ranging and expanding program of compulsory social insurance..."
Nope, no welfare systems there. Please.

Wait, let's keep going:
"In essence, the federal government provides a guaranteed income, on application, for the aged and for invalids who are without resources."
Shucks, a federal welfare program? Say it ain't so!

Why, it's almost like taking single statements out of context from a 28 year old analysis doesn't actually contain much meaning. Go figure.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  See, even the experts in the field...

Experts like a newspaper article and a thirty year old review. Gotcha.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  ... readily admit Switzerland's answer to welfare is most definitely NOT like any developed country. Now, take a minute and go fact check. Try to find just ONE source to backup your claim that Switzerland has a national, or even a state, welfare system "just like any developed country."

I did not say it had a national welfare system; you made that up, because that's all you ever do. Although your very own source indicates that it does, so good job disproving yourself.

I explicitly referred to the welfare systems which existed within the country - y'know, the things your source are explicitly discussing? - which any sane observer may verify by simply consulting my exact statement upthread.

I note, of course, that you conveniently don't quote that sentence in your post, probably because that would show how it doesn't say what you pretend it does.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  When you fail, and find that every source validates what I said, will you man up and admit that you misspoke?

That things such as unemployment insurance and healthcare mandates exist is not "strikingly different" from the systems (protip: all of them are different) in the rest of the world.

Not that you'd let little things like facts stand in your way.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(20-05-2014 06:39 PM)cjlr Wrote:  You've amply demonstrated that you know nothing about educational statistics either. Suffice to say that's not true.

Again, will you admit you're wrong once the evidence is inescapable?

There was a whole thread about that, if you'll recall. You spat up some false talking points and denigrated the actual OECD data I naively referred you to.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Let's see.

Huffington Post: "Poll: 37% of Americans Unable to Locate America on Map of America"

Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. ~Marcus Tullius Cicero

Indeed.

Let's look at the first line of that article.

Quote:Editor's note: This post is a satire.

So there's that.

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21-05-2014, 11:58 AM
RE: [split] Ignorance about anarchism
(21-05-2014 11:24 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Yes, he was referring to Switzerland as a Northern European country with strong regulation. He was obviously confusing it with Sweden.

He did no such thing; that's just you being you (ie, unable to read).

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Source: "So what happens if you are, say, a young mother in Switzerland with a little baby but no husband or similar on the scene and nowhere to live? There is no countrywide answer to this question because it is not dealt with on a national basis. It is not even dealt with by one of the 26 cantons. It is dealt with by your local commune. There are 2,900 of these and their population can be anything from 30 to 10,000 or more."

Hmm. Let's see what the actual article is called:
The Spectator Wrote:Swiss welfare runs like clockwork

Wait, what was that?

The Spectator Wrote:Swiss welfare runs like clockwork

Hmm. One more time?

The Spectator Wrote:Swiss welfare runs like clockwork

Hmm. That must indeed be about how they have no welfare systems.

Sorry, what were you saying?

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  "So what happens if you are, say, a young mother in Switzerland with a little baby but no husband or similar on the scene and nowhere to live? There is no countrywide answer to this question because it is not dealt with on a national basis. It is not even dealt with by one of the 26 cantons. It is dealt with by your local commune. There are 2,900 of these and their population can be anything from 30 to 10,000 or more."

There is no countrywide answer this question anywhere because other nations are not the unitary monolithic phantasms which populate your delusional hysteria.

Go figure.

Not that that pull quote has anything in particular to do with the existence of welfare systems, except of course for the part where they totally do exist, in direct opposition to your original statement, which you conveniently ignore.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Another study:

From 28 years ago. Gee, that sounds timely. Maybe it's time to update the copypasta?

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  "SWITZERLAND is not often thought of when we discuss the welfare state. In many respects it is not a welfare state... But in one critical respect it has achieved what the United States and European nations traditionally defined as welfare states have not: It has all but eliminated “welfare dependency,” or intergenerational poverty, and it has done this in a strikingly different manner than other developed societies."

It's nice that you've read the first page. Let's look a little further...
"The Swiss have established a far-ranging and expanding program of compulsory social insurance..."
Nope, no welfare systems there. Please.

Wait, let's keep going:
"In essence, the federal government provides a guaranteed income, on application, for the aged and for invalids who are without resources."
Shucks, a federal welfare program? Say it ain't so!

Why, it's almost like taking single statements out of context from a 28 year old analysis doesn't actually contain much meaning. Go figure.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  See, even the experts in the field...

Experts like a newspaper article and a thirty year old review. Gotcha.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  ... readily admit Switzerland's answer to welfare is most definitely NOT like any developed country. Now, take a minute and go fact check. Try to find just ONE source to backup your claim that Switzerland has a national, or even a state, welfare system "just like any developed country."

I did not say it had a national welfare system; you made that up, because that's all you ever do. Although your very own source indicates that it does, so good job disproving yourself.

I explicitly referred to the welfare systems which existed within the country - y'know, the things your source are explicitly discussing? - which any sane observer may verify by simply consulting my exact statement upthread.

I note, of course, that you conveniently don't quote that sentence in your post, probably because that would show how it doesn't say what you pretend it does.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  When you fail, and find that every source validates what I said, will you man up and admit that you misspoke?

That things such as unemployment insurance and healthcare mandates exist is not "strikingly different" from the systems (protip: all of them are different) in the rest of the world.

Not that you'd let little things like facts stand in your way.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Again, will you admit you're wrong once the evidence is inescapable?

There was a whole thread about that, if you'll recall. You spat up some false talking points and denigrated the actual OECD data I naively referred you to.

(20-05-2014 09:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Let's see.

Huffington Post: "Poll: 37% of Americans Unable to Locate America on Map of America"

Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. ~Marcus Tullius Cicero

Indeed.

Let's look at the first line of that article.

Quote:Editor's note: This post is a satire.

So there's that.

frankie is simply not good at this.

He can't read with comprehension, he can't research competently, and he can never see when he's wrong (which is often).

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-05-2014, 01:03 PM
RE: [split] Ignorance about anarchism
(21-05-2014 11:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  frankie is simply not good at this.

He can't read with comprehension, he can't research competently, and he can never see when he's wrong (which is often).

Attempting to cite satire as fact is undoubtedly one of the greatest hits in an already prolific record.

But then, given that he thinks making up his own data and making up his interlocutors' opinions is valid, I shouldn't be surprised to see him think others' made-up data is valid as well.

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21-05-2014, 01:47 PM
RE: [split] Ignorance about anarchism
(21-05-2014 01:03 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Attempting to cite satire as fact is undoubtedly one of the greatest hits in an already prolific record.
Well, that's not even the best part. It's that even if the source he cited wasn't satire, it still wouldn't support the claim he made.

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21-05-2014, 10:50 PM (This post was last modified: 22-05-2014 12:41 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: [split] Ignorance about anarchism
I'm just left mildly curious as to which fundy Libretard source claimed Switzerland was a "Libertarian Paradsie", and not the Democratic Socialist Republic that it actually is?

I imagine it was a caller on some AM radio show that Librtarians listen to so as to collectively masturbate to each other's fantasies.

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