[split] It's Supernatural.
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11-12-2013, 10:20 PM
RE: [split] It's Supernatural.
(11-12-2013 10:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  All you have done is to badger and demand.

I've argued a position and I have expected counter-argument; that is entirely reasonable on an atheist/skeptic forum. What I count as evidence is my prerogative and I am able to provide justification.

You have no rebuttal nor counter-argument. All you have is crotchety fist shaking.
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11-12-2013, 10:22 PM
RE: [split] It's Supernatural.
(11-12-2013 10:20 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 10:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  All you have done is to badger and demand.

I've argued a position and I have expected counter-argument; that is entirely reasonable on an atheist/skeptic forum. What I count as evidence is my prerogative and I am able to provide justification.

You have no rebuttal nor counter-argument. All you have is crotchety fist shaking.

One doesn't need to provide a counter-argument to point out that your banal assertions and strawman-bashing tirades are complete bullshit.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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12-12-2013, 02:37 AM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2013 03:03 AM by WitchSabrina.)
RE: [split] It's Supernatural.
(11-12-2013 08:54 PM)Cephalotus Wrote:  I will have to thank TM for rescuing this quote from the wall, lol.

(11-12-2013 01:03 PM)kim Wrote:  This is a thing that Chippy may not quite have the grasp of and his insults seem out of proportion to many.
But... it's not just Chippy... it takes more than one to bicker.

Everyone was having a nice conversation in the other thread about things that appear to be magical or unexplainable, and we reminisced about the fact that some of us used to be Wiccan and/or neopagan. Chippy decided to come along and assert that anybody who used to be Wiccan should be considered "an ignoramus" forevermore, *even if* they later realized the absurdity and stepped away from the religion altogether. That's strike one for his obvious trolling.

Strike two was his reasoning that only the religions who have *the most delusional founders* should be respected. On an atheist forum (On. An. Atheist. Forum.) he is asserting that prophets/founders/etc. who claim eternal & unyielding certainties are more deserving of consideration than those who say "Hey, guys, we might want to take a step back and reconsider this shit...."

Strike three (my personal favorite!) was the manner in which he treated legitimate arguments and rebuttals. His two favorite tactics were 1. Completely ignoring the ones he couldn't explain away, and 2. Asserting they were inconsequential to the discussion without providing reasons why they were inconsequential to the discussion.

Let's not forget the time he willingly admitted to a personal vendetta against Wicca, pretended he didn't understand us when it suited him to ignore the argument on the table, purposefully started side arguments so he could strawman them as the primary discussion, and stooped so low as to actually *defend* Scientology and Mormonism just to make Wicca look worse by comparison.

It's not so much a matter of bickering as it was an attempt to point out how flat-out, completely, and totally *wrong* these ideas are on merit. That's the way I saw it anyhow. I can't speak for anyone else. I can appreciate someone trying to play peace keeper, but there is absolutely no way to reason with an axe grinder. His only possible goal is continuing this was to make others on the forum feel guilty about past life decisions, which I can guarantee is far (far) beyond his authority or expertise.

EDIT: For everyone's information, I have added Chippy to my ignore list so I have no idea if he is still trying to communicate or not. I'm just putting my side out there.

Really don't have to add to that. ( tried to repost the entire thing!)

Other than I believe Chippy put me on ignore because I refused to be intimidated by him. In case it matters to anyone else - there was never any reason for my defending why I may have been Wiccan and Chippy never ASKED me he only attacked. His first post to me was obvious. I don't have to defend my life to anyone for ANY reason - least of all a bully and blowhard asshole like Chippy.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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12-12-2013, 02:54 AM
RE: [split] It's Supernatural.
(11-12-2013 08:45 PM)Chippy Wrote:  The idea that Wicca and neo-paganism is harmless was repeated in this very thread. No institutionalised/organised superstition is completely without harm and one that demands doublethink is most definitely not benign.
Ok, I see the concern.

(11-12-2013 08:45 PM)Chippy Wrote:  If an ex-CoS member came here and didn't use what they had learnt about the CoS to warn others, to educate others, to critique the CoS, to even modestly try and further the cause of skepticism but instead sought to minimise their error and assumed some CoS-related online persona my response would have been the same.
Ok, I understand.

(11-12-2013 08:45 PM)Chippy Wrote:  The irritant of a person like WS is the absence of a clear and unambiguous renouncement of a past folly or even a constructive exploitation of it. Look at her posts to date. They are just childish banalities. Where is the post that provides a sober analysis of Wicca, that explains why it is bullshit that could possibly serve as a warning for young people heading in that direction? Where is the post that reflects this claimed maturity of outlook and the mid-life retirement of childish ideas? I've put her in my ignore list because I very much doubt I will ever see that kind of post. I don't come to an atheist/skeptic forum to watch animated gifs.

I see but, is it possible she may still be under the influence of wicca? By this I mean, since part of the doublethink process is to inveigle a false contentment, would it not be possible that it's still not completely out of her system and she is still just trying to come to terms with it?

I know that many people who leave their religion often need to keep getting rid of it bit by bit. It can take a lot of time to shed and there are even distinct phases in which it is shed.

I know one person who was finally able to say out loud "I hate god" even though he had been fully atheist for more than six years. After that "breakthrough", a great many more things were finally able to be shed and at a very accelerated rate.

(11-12-2013 09:14 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 09:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  Her clear and unambiguous statement that she no longer believes in Wicca has been pointed out to you multiple times.
So where is the post-mortem report of Wicca? The forum is full of accounts from ex-Christians about the loss of their faith. Even the shortest of accounts refer to some aspect(s) of Christianity that eventually sunk their faith. It is incongruous that someone that claims to have renounced a religion has absolutely no criticism to make of that religion.
"I no longer believe in Wicca because........" ?

Couldn't it be possible that she isn't ready for that? As I said previously, from what I've observed there seems to be distinct phases people go through when they leave their religion and with these phases there is no particular order or timeframe. Perhaps WS has not reached the stage in freedom from her past where she can as yet, make such an evaluation. Some people might have to work up the nerve for that shit. Or maybe she just isn't used to outwardly expressing her internal processing about such an issue or maybe she simply is not one to expresses her contempt for something she knows she will always be trying to get rid of.

However, I can't say because I really do not know her. I can not and will not make any assertions or even assumptions about her or where she is in her life. She might not even quite know that herself.

My friend I spoke about previously had no support network so, when he rejected his faith, he went into therapy for nine years. His last two years few by after finally being able to hate god out loud, the first seven consisted of just coming to terms with what he was able to live with at any given moment.
***

Anyway, I think I understand your reasoning about Wicca however, - I can't say I agree with your assessment of WS because as I said, I don't know her and neither do you.

Since I don't know you either, I won't make any assumptions about you. I will say it has crossed my mind to suggest that you might want to take a step back when you see that people just aren't getting what you're trying to convey.

I don't know why people sometimes don't get things that I say but, when they don't, I also don't assume it's because they are stupid nor do I advise them that they are.

I just figure they don't get it right now so, I complete what I'm saying and move on. Maybe they'll get it later, maybe they won't. If someone insists on engaging, well then, that's up to them.

It's 3am for me.

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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12-12-2013, 03:44 AM
RE: [split] It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 02:37 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  ...I believe Chippy put me on ignore because I refused to be intimidated by him.

BINGO. And he did the same when I, too, beat his sorry punk ass down.

Let that be a message for everyone he tries to run his con game on.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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12-12-2013, 04:15 AM
RE: [split] It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 03:44 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 02:37 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  ...I believe Chippy put me on ignore because I refused to be intimidated by him.

BINGO. And he did the same when I, too, beat his sorry punk ass down.

Let that be a message for everyone he tries to run his con game on.

I'll tell you one thing - since Chippy elevated Wicca above and beyond all other religions I might just give it another peek. If Wicca is that important to yield such detailed vitriol there must be something pretty vital about it(?) I noticed most here (even those who were once Wiccan themselves) didn't give Wicca enough credit to warrant such attention; much less such a level of homage from Chippiedoodle. Amazing to watch really.

In fact, we ALL lived up to that one thing that Chippy ranted and raved about post after post after post........... that Wicca wasn't near as viable as those other religions divinely inspired. LOL WE lived up to his arguments - while he on the other hand did not. A clear case of "Actions speak louder than words". Don't you just love irony?

I've already had emails from members here asking about Wicca. I am always available via PMs or email to answer questions and no problem doing so.
Furthermore - IF at some point Chippy wished to **discuss** Wicca - ie his claim that he kept expecting some sort of rebuttal or defense regarding Wicca - He could have taken the conversation THAT direction, asked reasonable questions OR started a thread saying "WTF is Wicca?" - where attack and bullying would have been secondary.

Clearly that was not his goal.

No, I fear Chippy's issue was with Wicca Not me...........which is why I chose to make fun of him and refused to take his shit personally. (although he tried HARD to have a problem with me... I mean he Tried HARD which was really odd)

Also, I propose that his issues appear so deep seeded and long long lasting that he's prepared arguments AGAINST Wicca for some time now........
which is another reason why I did not explain myself to him. I rarely debate people who have their minds made up and NO ROOM for any opinion other than their own....

really is a much more sane way to live.
live and let live is a BIG component of Wicca --- so I guess I just hung on to that.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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12-12-2013, 04:56 AM
RE: [split] It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 02:54 AM)kim Wrote:  I see but, is it possible she may still be under the influence of wicca? By this I mean, since part of the doublethink process is to inveigle a false contentment, would it not be possible that it's still not completely out of her system and she is still just trying to come to terms with it?

Yes that is what I suspect is the case. Compare her behaviour with the ex-Mormon (I forget his name) or djmakillo (ex-Reformed) who want to tell you why their now abandoned faiths are bullshit, what the doctrinal flaws are. It isn't a question of justifying the error or apologising for it. Rather its a matter of critically scrutinising what you once held dear and sharing that critique so that others may benefit from it. That is what apostates do. There is no sense of that in any of her posts. They all seem disingenuous to me. She mentioned in one post still "dabbling" in the "supernatural" and being unable to detach from the idea she is part of something bigger than herself (New Age mumbo-jumbo).

Quote:I know that many people who leave their religion often need to keep getting rid of it bit by bit. It can take a lot of time to shed and there are even distinct phases in which it is shed.

If that be the case then why be insincere?

Quote:Couldn't it be possible that she isn't ready for that? As I said previously, from what I've observed there seems to be distinct phases people go through when they leave their religion and with these phases there is no particular order or timeframe.

Quite possibly. But again why be disingenuous? And why expect everyone to play along with your half-assed charade?

Quote:Perhaps WS has not reached the stage in freedom from her past where she can as yet, make such an evaluation. Some people might have to work up the nerve for that shit. Or maybe she just isn't used to outwardly expressing her internal processing about such an issue or maybe she simply is not one to expresses her contempt for something she knows she will always be trying to get rid of.

All of those are possibilities.

Quote:Anyway, I think I understand your reasoning about Wicca however, - I can't say I agree with your assessment of WS because as I said, I don't know her and neither do you.

True but there are many incongruities and those support my position. Watch and see. I am confident that my position will be vindicated.
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12-12-2013, 05:12 AM
RE: [split] It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 04:56 AM)Chippy Wrote:  Chippy: Blah blah blah

then: I am confident that my position will be vindicated.


No. It won't.


You're just being an asshole then had to REMAIN steadfast to your lame position because considering something OTHER than your own point of view might make you appear weak. Which is pathetic to watch. You've proved it. You invoked the ridicule you received and you should have done yourself a favor by shutting up eons ago. When you grow up you will realize that it's not a crime to sometimes be mistaken.

But no one here is really interested in waiting for you to grow up. We were at one point but you killed that good nature by furthering your cause of being such an ass post after post after post with your self-dedicated, self-pleasing diatribe.

If there's ANY vindication it will belong to ALL the other posters in this thread and not you but I suspect it will take you YEARS to appreciate that That is what transpired here.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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12-12-2013, 07:34 AM
[split] It's Supernatural.
You are still on my ignore list but I had a look at your assumed response.

(12-12-2013 05:46 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  And actually you're still basically incorrect. Inuit Shamanism believes everything to have a **soul** - whereas Rev used the term "Spirit".

Actually no. In Inuit Shamanism they do not believe rocks have spirits or souls and one of their rituals confirms this understanding. If rocks had spirits or souls then the "logic" of the rock-lifting ritual wouldn't work. The rock becomes heavy because they believe the apiqsaq (helping spirit) grasps the rock from below to communicate a yes or no answer to the shaman's questions. The rock is an inert object in the ritual.[1] The ritual doesn't describe any interaction between the apiqsaq and the "rock spirit".

Quote:Generally speaking, Rev, yes, shamanism believes everything has a spirit.

"Rev" isn't an Inuit word.[2]

No, the Inuit do not believe everything has a spirit or a soul. They believe that all living things have anirniq which means breath. [3] Rocks don't have anirniq. The Inuit believe that when something is killed its anirniq escapes. You can't kill a rock.
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12-12-2013, 08:53 AM
RE: [split] It's Supernatural.
(11-12-2013 10:16 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 10:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are a not quite right in the head.

Is that an expression of solidarity?

Have you ever wondered why you end up in the viper's pit or do you just not give a shit?

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