[split] It's Supernatural.
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05-12-2013, 06:41 PM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(05-12-2013 06:21 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 09:58 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  He's only showing the same ol tired-worn-out mentality that everyone's seen for centuries. He wants the land and the property so sure........burn the witch......whether or not she's actually one doesn't matter (ie witches don't really exist you see?)

What a heroic and delusional narrative you've created for yourself.

Quote: Note - I fed his own words back to him. Now........IF true to form....... it will be perfectly OK that he said those things but NOT ok for me to use them towards his own statements.

You are an idiot.

Quote:Everyone here can see clearly what a judgmental asshole he is

Indeed, and if some ex-CoS retard came here I would unload on them also.

Quote:Bullies............... where would we be without them?

Gullible idiots......where would con-artists be without them.

Are you so stupid that you are unable to differentiate past and present?

Are you so ideologically constipated that you believe that one's past is never past?

Are you so egotistical that you think you know someone better than they know themselves?

You really are an asshole.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-12-2013, 07:06 PM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(05-12-2013 12:29 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I have no idea why Chippy has focused on me but I suspect reading his words and massive assumptions that he's more angry with Wicca itself rather than me.

You appear to be the most idiotic and gullible person on this forum. You chose to believe in Wicca, you didn't inherit the belief from your parents and you chose it as an adult. You have no good excuse.

Quote:He also speaks as though I've condoned Gardner's creation of Wicca which I have not.

Gardner invented Wicca and he told people that he invented it; it takes a special sort of idiocy to believe something that someone told you they invented.

Quote:Actually, whether a religion is created 1,000 yrs ago or yesterday or anywhere in-between makes no difference. Religion is what it is........date doesn't make it any more valid or less valid. Attaching a name or a book or any other attributes doesn't make it any more relative or believable. None of these things matter.

What matters is when it is patently clear that someone has mad somthing up and you believe it regardless of that.

Quote:I don't speak for all Wiccans or ex-Wiccans but for me the draw was more or less applying the same Christian life I was raised in and bumping out those dogmatic walls to make space for more - when technically it's the same thing. So... it took me awhile to come to grips that religion is simply - religion. Doesn't matter really what label you put on it NOR does it matter how you go about it.

No it does make a difference. A Christian can wrestle with ideas about the historicity of Christ, about the authenticity of the gospels, about the reality of the miracles etc.

Whereas with Wicca it is evident that Gardner just made all of the crap up. He butchered other--mainly modern--occult ideas and combined them to produce Wicca. The inauthenticity of Wicca is plain.

Quote:I don't exactly see where the crime is - in that happened in my life and I've honestly shared that here?

The intellectual and cultural crime is that:
--you are a citizen of a developed nation
--you had access to education and are literate
--you rely on the scientific and technological edifice for every aspect of your life
--you were not enculturated into Wicca by your parents
--Wicca is patently inauthentic, it is self-inauthenticating
--you adopted and continued with Wicca as a adult

You simply have no plausible apology. You are a stupid and gullible person. Regardless of whether you say you have divested yourself of Wicca you are at core a stupid and gullible person and if you haven't already done so you will in all likelihood adopt some equally idiotic set of beliefs.

I'm giving you the dressing down that clearly no one has to date given you and which you deserve. And as I said in my other post if some ex-CoS tool came here I would do the same.

Quote:Narrowing our field of what works in our lives and what does not is part of the human experience.

Yes it is. It is for all people with at least average intelligence.

Quote:I see no crime in that process myself. However, reaching SUCH a narrow view as there's No space left for anyone else's view, opinion, reasoning, searching, learning or outside-your-own-self input can be just a dangerous as full-blown dogmatic gullibility.

No, sorry your superstitions and gullibility don't merit any special consideration and especially not so on an atheistic/skeptical forum. You are as gullible as they come.

Quote:Probably has a great deal to do with why I steer in the middle of the road more often than not.

So you are claiming that the "middle of the road" between Christianity and atheism is Wicca?

Quote:There's SO so much I do not know. The more I accept that the more I can learn.

No shit. You don't even appear to be able to reason. Do you now understand that of someone makes somthing up it is--by definition--untrue?

Quote:Chippy does not understand that Just Because he says I am stupid does not make it so.

No, you are stupid because you accepted an obviously invented religion. I call you stupid because of that. You are are stupid independenly of me calling you stupid.

Quote:That self-righteous delusional bubble he lives in allows him to throw his own anger around; working desperately to make it stick on other people.

I've never believed I can cast spells or that Garnder is a prophet.

Quote:Wasted time & energy to make himself feel smarter, bigger, in control, etc............. all sad to witness.

A concise description of your own life.

The belief in witchcraft represents one of the most primitive and infantile of human self-deceptions.

Quote:And bullies like him are a dime-a-dozen on any internet forum.

Actually no, that is why you are taking your medicine so badly.

Quote:Believe me - just because he calls me names does not make it true.

I believe you. You were a gullible idiot well before you encountered me.

Quote:My journey is my own.

Thankfully.

Quote:A person must respect themselves before they can show others respect. When you see someone giving NO respect towards another - always bear in mind its because they don't respect their own selves and live in a squalor of hate and self deceit.

Why should I respect anyone that has taken a shit on Western civilisation and Enlightenment values?
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05-12-2013, 07:12 PM
RE: It's Supernatural.
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05-12-2013, 07:14 PM
RE: It's Supernatural.
Chippy, what are you trying to accomplish?

Really, I could at least vaguely understand if you would make the argument that you were being an asshole for the purpose to violently shake her from her beliefs, but it's already been made clear that she NO LONGER HOLDS THESE BELIEFS.

So why are you viciously assaulting her for it? Do you think people can only come to an understanding of their past beliefs by listening to you berate them?

If so, you have a lot to learn.

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05-12-2013, 07:14 PM
RE: It's Supernatural.
Nice selective quoting, asshole. You left out the part where she states she has moved on.

(05-12-2013 12:29 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  So... it took me awhile to come to grips that religion is simply - religion. Doesn't matter really what label you put on it NOR does it matter how you go about it.

I've always wanted to be a good person and lead a good life and felt strongly that in order to do so I needed to be attached to something bigger than myself - even if only the humanity we all share. More and more dogma and religion mattered less......until it vanished altogether.

You are a real dishonest dipshit, Chippy.

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05-12-2013, 07:20 PM
RE: It's Supernatural.
ChippieDoodle

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05-12-2013, 07:31 PM
RE: It's Supernatural.
Chippy,

I haven't been here that long and I might not have a right to say this, but you are being a grade A jackass right now. She is an EX Wiccan (as am I) and you have no right to be so judgmental. Ever heard the phrase "better late than never?"

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05-12-2013, 08:03 PM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(05-12-2013 06:21 PM)Chippy Wrote:  What a heroic blah blah blah...

You are a fucking punk. I bet you feel real tough, sniping from behind the safe cover of that keyboard, bitch.

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05-12-2013, 08:07 PM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(05-12-2013 08:03 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 06:21 PM)Chippy Wrote:  What a heroic blah blah blah...

You are a fucking punk. I bet you feel real tough, sniping from behind the safe cover of that keyboard, bitch.

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06-12-2013, 01:08 AM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(05-12-2013 08:49 PM)Cephalotus Wrote:  Ok....

I decided to come back to this thread and word things a bit kinder. Tongue Doubt it'll do any good, but meh.

There is a note of remorse in your post that is clearly absent from anything our menopausal witch has posted. The username, avatar and potted bio--aside from the posts--almost revel in the idiocy and figuratively thumbs its nose at the foundational assumptions of this forum and rational skepticism and atheism in general. I won't give tacit assent to that. If you and others don't like that then tough shit.

Quote:Nobody WANTS to be taken-in by religion. Nobody fucking wants that shit but a very select few; let's be honest here. It's one of those things that either just happens from apathy, a misunderstanding of science, or your parents raised you in that manner.

You don't need an understanding of science to arrive at the knowledge that Wicca is bullshit and our menopausal witch sought it out rather than inherited it from her parents.

Quote:I will never apologize or be made to feel guilty about that particular life decision. I didn't know any better and I got suckered into a few weird lifestyles along the way.

You've aleady expressed regret and that is the cousin of guilt so I think you are being disingenuous.

Quote:Granted, my love of biology should have driven anything religious to the back of my mind, but it didn't. So what?

Wicca isn't just "anything religious". It is 20th-century invention with no organic relationship to pre-Christian religion in what is now the UK. Gardner made it up. It is patently inauthentic. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are predicated on the idea that their scriptures are authentic--that they are the revealed word of a deity. If you can persuade a Jew, Christian or Muslim that their holy writ is a human invention then they will abandon their faith. With Wicca the inauthenticity is a given--we know for a fact that Garnder made it up in the post-WWII period. So as a religion it is dead in the water, it is stillborn. That is why there is no such thing as Wiccan apologetics or Wiccan apologists. That is why no skeptic even bothers to debunk Wicca. It would be like entering a dead horse in a race.

Wicca is a self-inauthenticating religion. Gardner made it up. Ipso facto it is false. So to believe it you have to:
--not understand the idea of a religion
--not understand the idea that if someone makes something up it is--by definition--false, i.e. it doesn't comport with reality

Don't just reflexively respond. Stop and think about that. If a Jew were to discover that the Torah did not originate from Yahweh or a Muslim were to discover that the Quran did not originate from Allah their belief would cease. Wiccan's commit some sort of Orwellian doublethink: Gardner made it up and it is also true. Hence my claim that this is a special species of human stupidity.

Quote:I was wrong. Nobody is perfect. The only thing that matters is that I eventually found the error of my ways and quit lying to myself about certain things. I personally think I am a stronger person now *because* of that experience. I am definitely more appreciative of skepticism and life in general.

No human is perfect but most can understand the idea that if someone makes something up it is not true. I'll make this simple for you. Mainline Christianity, Judaism and Islam hold that knowledge can be obtained from three sources:

(i) experience;
(ii) reason; and
(iii) divine revelation

Gardner had no experiential demonstration of the authenticity of his doctrine. He never performed anything supernatural which served as a demonstration of the authenticity of Wicca. So (i) is to be struck out.

Gardner presented no deductive system to justify Wicca. So (ii) is to be struck out.

Gardner never claimed that Wicca was revealed to him by a deity, angel or demon. So (iii) is to be struck out.

So what's left to give Wicca even prima facie warrant? Nothing.

Does Wicca have explanatory power? Does it explain anything better than all of the possible alternatives? Does it even seem to have explanatory power as per creationism? The answer to these questions is no.

There is no level at which Wicca can be a justified belief. The idea of Wicca--by virtue of its patent inauthenticity--even fails to grasp why humans have religions in the first place.

Quote:Do you get it now, Chippy?

Do you get it now?

To believe in Wicca you have to be thoroughlly stupid in ways that mainline religions don't demand. And unfortunately I am related to a former Wiccan; there is nothing you can tell me that will be new to me on this matter. I no longer trust this relative's judgement on any matter that has even the slightest amount of ambiguity. And my lack of trust has been justfied by the last 20 or so years of experience as he has hopped from one stupid belief system to another. Is he wiser after 20 years of consistent error--which I had advised about and accurately predicted eventual disillusionment in every case? No. Constitutionally he has something missing. I've discussed this relative with other relatives to confirm that it isn't just my false reading of him but no they agreed with my analysis and "prognosis". He does have some sort of problem which renders him skeptical about warranted beliefs and credulous about unwarranted beliefs.

Wicca is such that if you can believe it you are pretty much fucked. My experience and the form and content of the doctrine confirm this.
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