[split] LGBT+ Jesus
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28-08-2017, 01:16 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(28-08-2017 05:03 AM)Propwash Wrote:  Hey guys and gals, let's have a little reality check around here..Smile
Scientists (repeat- scientists) estimate there are thousands of intelligent alien civilisations in our galaxy alone, so given the fact that Jesus said he was an alien with awesome powers, why shouldn't we assume he was an alien visitor? And like I mentioned before, he never said a word about GLBT's one way or the other, not a single word, so it can't have been a big issue as far as he was concerned, so I can't understand why atheists don't like him..

[Image: Drake-equation_zpsybveqapb.jpg~original]

"According to Drake, the average of people's best estimates suggests that there are about 10,000 technically advanced civilisations spread across our galaxy"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/unive...e_equation


Jesus is not a given.
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28-08-2017, 01:17 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(28-08-2017 05:12 AM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  
(28-08-2017 04:39 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Uh, hooray for your ignorant ass then?

You do not get to unilaterally redefine the meaning of the word 'theist' or any of it's derivatives. Catholicism is by definition a theistic religion, for fuck's sake... Drinking Beverage

Would you mind explaining how on earth Catholicism is a theistic religion?

Drooling
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28-08-2017, 01:58 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(27-08-2017 11:39 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  There are good reasons for homosexuals not being accepted throughout history, acceptance of that sort of thing would definitely lead to a nasty fallout in society.

.... a claim?

A testable claim?

AHA! We can science this claim!

.... and I'm pretty sure that you haven't. And to be fair, neither have I. So before we get to actually CHECKING our assumptions, lemme take a step back and talk epistemology. WHY do we think our positions to be true?

Well I can't say for sure why YOU do. I'd guess a mix of religious indoctrination and general ignorance, but I'm sure you could provide an answer.

For me, I'm pretty sure approval of homosexuality won't cause catastrophe because there's no causal. One just has no mechanism of leading to the other. It's not like gays are more likely to cause social harm than anyone else. I've met a lot of gay people over my life, and they're the normal mix of great people and jerks. If anything, there's been a slight trend towards increased empathy and social consciousness, due, as far as I can tell, to the bigotry they've been subjected to. Nor does it seem to undermine family or social glue in any way. If anything, pressuring people into different-sex marriages where they feel no mutual attraction sabotages those new families. And I AM familiar with studies that (barring one infamous example that was really bad science) tend to show that gay couples raise children that are about as well-adjusted as straight couples. The only mechanism I could see for acceptance of homosexuality leading to some sort of social collapse is religious nutjobs losing their shit and blowing stuff up... which would make it less of an "acceptance of gays" problem and more of a "religious nutjobs" problem.

But okay, all of that's untested hypothesizing on my part. SO LET'S PUT IT TO THE TEST!

The Pew Research Center tracks a lot of opinion on a lot of topics. In 2014, they published worldwide statistics on 40 countries on a variety of moral questions. One of the questions was: "Do you personally believe that homosexuality is morally acceptable, morally unacceptable, or is it not a moral issue?" Bear in mind that not every country was polled.

I'm going to list countries whose people are saying it's morally acceptable twice as often as unacceptable, versus whose people are saying it's morally unacceptable twice as often as acceptable. I'll also comment on how each country is doing.

Countries which favor acceptance of homosexuality to unacceptance by at least 2:1

Spain (55% acceptable, 6% unacceptable)
Spain is recovering from the 2008 global market crash and suffering from repeated attacks by terrorists, but neither of those seems to have anything to do with the gays. (Well, maybe the terrorists hate socially accepting countries, but that's a terrorist problem and not a gay problem.) It is not in a state of social collapse.

Germany (51% acceptable, 8% unacceptable)
Germany's a global and financial leader. It's a parliamentary democracy with, at least since reunification following the end of the cold war, a good human rights record. It's straining some under the refugee crisis, but it is not in a state of social collapse.

France (36% acceptable, 14% unacceptable)
Another democracy, also a world leader in terms or prestige and human rights. Doing pretty dang well by itself. Not in a state of social collapse.

Czech Republic (56% acceptable, 14% unacceptable)
Another parliamentary democracy. Good employment rates, high standard of living. Not in a state of societal collapse.

Canada (30% acceptable, 15% unacceptable)
Another parliamentary democracy. Good economy, high standard of living, reputation for politeness. Not collapsing.

Britain (36% acceptable, 17% unacceptable)
Another constitutional-monarchy-democracy. Definitely a world leader. Going through hard economic times and political turmoil due to Brexit, but no problems related to the gays. Nothing that really crosses the line of catastrophe.

Italy (42% acceptable, 18% unacceptable)
Another parliamentary democracy. Great economy, great life expectancy. Wonderful tourism. Not collapsing.

Those are the nations where, back in 2014, people were twice as likely to say homosexuality was morally acceptable rather than unacceptable. None of them are today in a state of societal collapse. All of them have freedom and human rights. Most have good economies. All are great places to live.

Now, let's look at the other side of the coin. Because there are a lot of these, I won't analyze their present state in detail. The first number is those who said unacceptable, the second acceptable, and third is those who said it's not a moral issue.

Countries which favor unacceptance of homosexuality to acceptance by at least 2:1

Ghana
98% 1% 1%

Egypt
95% 1% 1%

Jordan
95% 2% 3%

Palestinian ter.
94% 1% 4%

Indonesia
93% 3% 2%

Uganda
93% 1% 5%

Tunisia
92% 0% 4%

Kenya
88% 3% 9%

Malaysia
88% 4% 6%

Nigeria
85% 1% 11%

Pakistan
85% 1% 3%

Lebanon
80% 7% 11%

Turkey
78% 4% 12%

Russia
72% 9% 9%

El Salvador
70% 18% 9%

Senegal
68% 3% 26%

India
67% 9% 11%

Philippines
65% 25% 9%

South Africa
62% 18% 12%

Lots of failed and failing states in that list. Lots of dictatorships. Lots of theocracies, lots of poverty. Lots of human rights violations. Lots of nations in a state or teetering on the edge of societal collapse.

I cannot think of a single ONE of those nations that I would prefer to live in compared to ANY of the nations on the first list.

So, let's go back to your claim.

(27-08-2017 11:39 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  There are good reasons for homosexuals not being accepted throughout history, acceptance of that sort of thing would definitely lead to a nasty fallout in society.

Where's the nasty fallout that acceptance would definitely lead to? It isn't manifesting. If anything, the OPPOSITE seems to be the case. Societies where nonacceptance, marginalization, vilification, and dehumanization of one's neighbors, for doing things that harm NOBODY, are doing a lot worse. There's no grounds to say whether there's a causal link, but if there WAS a causal link, it would suggest that hating and attacking people over trivial differences somehow undoes the glue of civil society. Imagine that!

Your claim is counterfactual. It fails in its predictions.

So... back to why you believe this. Why? It's obvious that you didn't bother to CHECK if this was true before you started spouting it. This isn't something that's actually happening in the world. This isn't a trend you picked up on. So... what are your "good reasons", why aren't they panning out, and why did you believe them in the first place?

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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28-08-2017, 02:13 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
He believes it because he's a bigoted trolling cock master Drinking Beverage
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28-08-2017, 11:30 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(28-08-2017 05:03 AM)Propwash Wrote:  Scientists (repeat- scientists) estimate there are thousands of intelligent alien civilisations in our galaxy alone, so given the fact that Jesus said he was an alien with awesome powers, why shouldn't we assume he was an alien visitor?
Because it's fucking stupid that's why.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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28-08-2017, 11:39 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(28-08-2017 11:30 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(28-08-2017 05:03 AM)Propwash Wrote:  Scientists (repeat- scientists) estimate there are thousands of intelligent alien civilisations in our galaxy alone, so given the fact that Jesus said he was an alien with awesome powers, why shouldn't we assume he was an alien visitor?
Because it's fucking stupid that's why.

Why is it fucking stupid?
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28-08-2017, 11:53 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(28-08-2017 11:39 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  
(28-08-2017 11:30 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Because it's fucking stupid that's why.

Why is it fucking stupid?

Because genetics dealt it a crappy hand.

And by "it" I mean you and that Unwashed troll Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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28-08-2017, 11:55 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(28-08-2017 02:02 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Why do you think they take comfort in Jesus?

(28-08-2017 10:22 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Hence the verse: Suffer little children... come unto me.

Don't you listen to the mean old cynical men, don't you listen!




#sigh
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29-08-2017, 12:11 AM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2017 12:21 AM by Angra Mainyu.)
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(28-08-2017 11:53 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(28-08-2017 11:39 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  Why is it fucking stupid?

Because genetics dealt it a crappy hand.

And by "it" I mean you and that Unwashed troll Drinking Beverage

Intelligence has little to do with genetics.
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29-08-2017, 12:24 AM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(29-08-2017 12:11 AM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  
(28-08-2017 11:53 PM)Vera Wrote:  Because genetics dealt it a crappy hand.

And by "it" I mean you and that Unwashed troll Drinking Beverage

Lol I'm smarter than you, punk.

Christ Facepalm You're really the stupidest troll. I mean, you've got competition but I'm awarding you the prize for utter imbecility and dedication to the same. What I don't understand is why you stupid fucks hang out here. Surely there's a stupid farm somewhere - some cesspit like 4chan - where you will find your rightful place?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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