[split] LGBT+ Jesus
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23-08-2017, 04:53 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(23-08-2017 04:46 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  [Hears voice of slick radio presenter, soothing and easy on ears]

Good morning Warsaw. Today we will tell you why Jews aren't interested in World Domination and why they don't kidnap people who think they do. In other news we will tell you how they don't rule USA and why using only Jewish banks is best idea ever.

That will get you killed. You're being paid to spread the message of Jewish world denomination and to tell the world of their plan exactly the way you were told it. And you should yell a lot while you're saying it. ... No wonder you're worried, your street skills might need work.

#sigh
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23-08-2017, 04:59 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(23-08-2017 04:53 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Jewish world denomination

What fresh Sheol is that? Gasp

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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23-08-2017, 05:06 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(23-08-2017 04:53 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(23-08-2017 04:46 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  [Hears voice of slick radio presenter, soothing and easy on ears]

Good morning Warsaw. Today we will tell you why Jews aren't interested in World Domination and why they don't kidnap people who think they do. In other news we will tell you how they don't rule USA and why using only Jewish banks is best idea ever.

That will get you killed. You're being paid to spread the message of Jewish world denomination and to tell the world of their plan exactly the way you were told it. And you should yell a lot while you're saying it. ... No wonder you're worried, your street skills might need work.
[Hears nazi-esque screaming]

To all true Poles. Jewish baccilus will not prevail if you will stay vigilant. They may plan to dominate the world but their agents can be discovered. Check their PESEL*. [shitty rambling can be heard]

[in quivering voice]

Hope it was done properly this time.


Personal identification code. Also actual idea of fringe Polish antisemites. Unfortunately using this method shown pope JPII to be a Jew Big Grin Nationalists weren't amused.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-08-2017, 05:29 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
.........

..... and apparently this is now the sarcastically-faux-anti-semmetism thread.

I swear, you people derail these things faster and faster every year.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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23-08-2017, 05:30 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(23-08-2017 05:06 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  To all true Poles. Jewish baccilus will not prevail if you will stay vigilant. They may plan to dominate the world but their agents can be discovered. Check their PESEL*. [shitty rambling can be heard]

[in quivering voice]

Hope it was done properly this time.

No, no it was not done properly at all. You're just not getting this. If they don't think you can prove useful, you're just gonna disappear.

#sigh
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23-08-2017, 05:32 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(23-08-2017 05:29 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  .........

..... and apparently this is now the sarcastically-faux-anti-semmetism thread.

I swear, you people derail these things faster and faster every year.

Thread was already split off. That means it's fair game for a free-for-all. Smile

#sigh
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23-08-2017, 05:33 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(22-08-2017 08:51 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(22-08-2017 06:12 AM)Propwash Wrote:  Sorry to butt in, but if it's any comfort, Jesus never said a single word about GLBT's one way or the other, not a single word, so maybe it wasn't a big issue with him?

He didn't need to because his entire ministry was to Jews who knew and believed what the Old Testament said about the subject. The apostle Paul needed to speak of the subject because he worked among gentiles who didn't know God.

Too bad you don't know what the OT said about it.
(Care to write us an explanation for why ancient Near Eastern CIVIL, not religious) cultural rules should apply to a modern scientific society that KNOWS that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice ?)

"Homosexuality as an "orientation" was unknown in the history of human ideas until the late Nineteenth Century.
There was no, (supposed), "lifestyle" until the Twentieth Century. The idea of "orientation" arose when Psychology began to develop as a science. All men were assumed to be straight, and only straight, all women straight, and only straight.
There was also no notion of a continuum of sexual behaviors, (bisexuality), as science recognizes today.
Any "different" behavior was seen as "deviancy" from an absolute inherent norm, which the person was assumed to inherently possess, completely by virtue of birth gender.

In Ancient Israel class and status distinctions were extremely important.

The injunction in Biblical times, (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13), was against (assumed), STRAIGHT men, (and only men), (as they ALL were assumed to be straight), engaging in same-sex behaviors. (There is a mistaken use of the Sodom and Gomorrah myth in this context also, which is misguided, and I'll deal with that last).

Why ?
It had to do with class structure, and male status. A male, who held the highest position in society, and held the highest class status, was seen to be "feminized" by penetration, and designated as a social inferior, (female), by a male of lower class status, and thus his status was lowered, to that of a woman.
THAT is the reason the culture forbade it. It had NOTHING to do with sex. It was status, and only status. This concept remains very much, (subliminally and overtly), in place today. This law code, in Leviticus, (the latest law code to be written), is the ONLY place this appears in the Old Testament. The author of Leviticus was very interested in the "equality of all" before God. It was that author's agenda. He also said strangers, and others from outside Israel were all to be treated with equal rights and dignity, which was a departure, from other texts and codes. It is ironic, indeed, this equality has been turned on it's head, to treat gay people, less equality. The author of Leviticus WANTED all people treated equally, and that is why he wrote the injunction into the text, in the first place, to PREVENT inequality. The ideal society for this author was classless, and that could not happen if a male penetrates a male, and makes him thereby, a lower class. It's about class, not sex.

This cultural origin was true in the Old Testament culture, as well as the New. That is the reason it ended up in the Bible, and the ONLY reason it was there.

The law in the Old Testament : "You shall not lay a male as with the laying of a woman, it is an offensive thing". (note: the correct translation is NOT, "it is an abomination"). (The word "toi-va" is used, and in archaic Hebrew, EVERYWHERE else is translated, "an offensive thing").

Why is this important ? Because there are levels of "offensive things", and levels of meanings of "offensive things".

There were a number of levels of offensive things in the Old Testament.

#1. was something which was offensive to God, and this was the worst.
#2. was something which was offensive to other peoples and cultures, (for example the same word is used with reference to some foods being "offensive" to other cultures, (as hagas might be to Americans), or for example the Egyptians didn't eat, with non-Egyptians, as that was "offensive", or in today's language, "bad manners".
#3. was something which was just generally "offensive", with no further relational attribution.

So it can be "offensive" to some people, but not everyone, and is relative to the situation, or to god, or just in general.

The injunction against male same sex behavior is the third kind of offensive. It's not related to either God or anything, or anyone else.
(There are other verses around it that are stated to be offensive to God, but not this one).
So in this text, it is offensive to the authors of the text, and that specific culture, (only).

Same-sex behaviors (upper class man penetrated by same class or lower class men), was forbidden, for class reasons.
Equal class men, doing non-penetrating activity, or women together was not forbidden.
( Woman with woman, in general, was not addressed, and the class issue was not important.)

So what does this tell us ?
It tells us the laws were written into the Bible by HUMANS, for human culturally relative, and internally referenced reasons.
The laws in the Bible REFLECTED their OWN culture, of the times, and did not "inform" the culture.
The direction of information flow is crucial. Every Biblical scholar knows this. The Bible was informed by the culture, NOT the other way around.
There are no "ultimate" claims possible from culturally relative, historically rooted, human local customs.

The other main text used to justify the fundamentalist nonsense about homosexuality, is the Sodom and Gomorrah myth in Genesis.

Hospitality of Abraham : In Genesis 18, there is a myth about the hospitality of Abraham, (he welcomes two strangers, who turn out to be angels), as that was an important cultural value, in a society where a wandering desert dweller could get lost, and die.

The myth is followed closely by it's counter example of in-hospitality in the Lot myth, (Sodom and Gomorrah). It is not about sex. It's a counter example to the hospitality story, of in-hospitality. The context is important.

The great irony is that some religious fundies use the Bible to keep gay people away from their "table", and feasts, using the very texts that the Bible intended to teach hospitality, to do the opposite.

ref : Drs. Shawna Dolansky, and Richard Elliott Friedman, "The Bible Now", and "Who Wrote the Bible"

It would really help if religionists got their facts straight, and learned about their fucking Bible."
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid117446

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-08-2017, 05:36 PM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(23-08-2017 05:29 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  I swear, you people derail these things faster and faster every year.

Yep, like Girly said, this was *already* a derail. That's a whole other, much more advanced, skill level you're seeing at play here. Watch and learn Smartass

Oh, and Bucky is finally here. High time!

Also, Bucky, my most dear, he was tellin' us Jesus was really for realz and he was going to teach us about the bible cause we don't really understand it...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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23-08-2017, 05:41 PM (This post was last modified: 23-08-2017 05:53 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(22-08-2017 04:51 PM)Propwash Wrote:  
(22-08-2017 07:55 AM)adey67 Wrote:  If he indeed existed but that's a different topic altogether, love your avatar BTWWink

Thanks, but the entire population of Israel plus the Roman garrison saw JC, that's a lot of eyeballs..Smile

PS- another bit of comfort for gays is that God only zapped Sodom/Gomorrah because they were the loud noisy depraved kind, going round hammering on peoples doors demanding the men be sent out.
Nobody minds decent friendly gays..Smile

Isn't he cute. He actually still thinks the gospels were writing "history". LOL Facepalm
You don't know that. In Acts Peter had to tell them what they did, and they had no idea what he was talking about.
Sodom and Gomorrah is a myth. It never happened.
That's like saying the student body at Hogwarts saw Harry, so he must be real. Facepalm
Gays don't need no fucking comfort from your imaginary religious stories from ancient cultures.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-08-2017, 12:21 AM
RE: [split] LGBT+ Jesus
(23-08-2017 05:29 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  .........

..... and apparently this is now the sarcastically-faux-anti-semmetism thread.

I swear, you people derail these things faster and faster every year.

PropWash, the initiator of all this, could have kept it on point by actually answering stuff. He was on the forum at the appropriate time, writing crap in other threads. Since he appears to have no interest in defending his bullshit, on with the derail.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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