[split] LGBT (sub)section?
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17-06-2017, 11:47 PM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(17-06-2017 08:20 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(17-06-2017 04:28 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  In Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia you're more likely to be killed for being gay. By in large the only gay people being killed in the West (for being gay) is by Muslims from Muslim-Majority countries, or their children. This isn't some societal issue in the West. This isn't to say the West is perfect. It's not, nor will any society ever be, but this is a community for atheists. There are communities for gay/trans issues. This isn't it. That being said, this is the last place something like this would be warranted. 99.9% of atheists don't give a shit what's between your legs, of what you like to put in you, or put in others. It's a non-issue here. However, if you want to talk about something, you can do so. As you have said yourself, you are already doing so. So why then do you want special treatment?

You're acting like you know that most of the atheists here wouldn't think an LGBT subforum is a good idea. You don't know that. You're assuming most people would agree with you.

Well if you want a rough guide look at the original thread.
LeeRob suggested the idea, got 5 likes. I commented that I don't see the point in such a thing, 8 likes.

Not to mention it's irrelevant. This isn't a democracy, MomSBB has final say and has said that there will not be a subforum. You lost Genesis, get over it. You're not getting your subforum.
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18-06-2017, 06:32 AM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(17-06-2017 11:47 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(17-06-2017 08:20 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  You're acting like you know that most of the atheists here wouldn't think an LGBT subforum is a good idea. You don't know that. You're assuming most people would agree with you.

Well if you want a rough guide look at the original thread.
LeeRob suggested the idea, got 5 likes. I commented that I don't see the point in such a thing, 8 likes.

Not to mention it's irrelevant. This isn't a democracy, MomSBB has final say and has said that there will not be a subforum. You lost Genesis, get over it. You're not getting your subforum.


Why do you keep telling me to stop questioning you? I'm going to keep questioning you. If you're for "true freedom", why are you fine with this not being a democracy?

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18-06-2017, 07:56 PM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(18-06-2017 06:32 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(17-06-2017 11:47 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Well if you want a rough guide look at the original thread.
LeeRob suggested the idea, got 5 likes. I commented that I don't see the point in such a thing, 8 likes.

Not to mention it's irrelevant. This isn't a democracy, MomSBB has final say and has said that there will not be a subforum. You lost Genesis, get over it. You're not getting your subforum.


Why do you keep telling me to stop questioning you? I'm going to keep questioning you. If you're for "true freedom", why are you fine with this not being a democracy?

When did I tell you to stop questioning me? Quote me because I never did.
Stop straw-maning me.

And I'm not about "true freedom" (aka anarchy), I'm for freedom of speech and true equality. Freedom of speech and true equality has nothing to do with democracy. It just so happens that a lot of dictators tend to be dickheads and suppress their people to stay in power. But a lot of democracies also suppress people to stay in power. Democracies and dictatorships got nothing to do with it.

MomSBB is our 'dictator'. But we still have freedom of speech, we still have equality. She's fair and good at what she does so I don't have a problem with her.


Nothing you've said lately regarding this Genesis has made any sense or has been anywhere near a level of basic intelligence. You should really reevaluate your stance to keep this going by spewing stupid shit like your last post and trying to discredit me by claiming I'm saying things I'm not. It makes you look stupid.
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19-06-2017, 07:54 AM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(17-06-2017 04:28 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(14-06-2017 09:01 AM)Emma Wrote:  It's not done though. Marriage equality was achieved in the US, sure. But it's not "done". LGBT people still have to deal with living in a hostile country in the US. People still get beat up for being gay or trans. People still get murdered for it. People still get beat up and murdered for being black, too.

It's far bigger than simply marriage equality.

In Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia you're more likely to be killed for being gay. By in large the only gay people being killed in the West (for being gay) is by Muslims from Muslim-Majority countries, or their children. This isn't some societal issue in the West. This isn't to say the West is perfect. It's not, nor will any society ever be, but this is a community for atheists. There are communities for gay/trans issues. This isn't it. That being said, this is the last place something like this would be warranted. 99.9% of atheists don't give a shit what's between your legs, of what you like to put in you, or put in others. It's a non-issue here. However, if you want to talk about something, you can do so. As you have said yourself, you are already doing so. So why then do you want special treatment?

No, it does not follow that we should not seek to improve unfair conditions for those that do not have the most unfair conditions. There is little that most Americans can do to improve conditions for Afghans and Saudi's- that does not mean we should sit on our hands until things either deteriorate to that level of inhumanity or they catch up to our level of inhumanity.

Did you know that it's still legal in many US states to fire LGBTQ people simply for their LGBTQ status? The same is true for eviction and many other areas where you'd expect protections.

Quote:The regulation of LGBT employment discrimination in the United States varies by jurisdiction. Many, but far from all, states and localities prohibit bias in hiring, promotion, job assignment, termination, and compensation, as well as harassment on the basis of one's sexual orientation. Fewer extend those protections to cover sexual identity.

Moreover, there still exists a substantially higher risk of physical and verbal assault simply for being LGBTQ in the US.

Don't give me this "some people have it worse" bullshit as reason to ignore the problems and pretend they don't exist.
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19-06-2017, 10:26 AM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(17-06-2017 08:20 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(17-06-2017 04:28 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  In Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia you're more likely to be killed for being gay. By in large the only gay people being killed in the West (for being gay) is by Muslims from Muslim-Majority countries, or their children. This isn't some societal issue in the West. This isn't to say the West is perfect. It's not, nor will any society ever be, but this is a community for atheists. There are communities for gay/trans issues. This isn't it. That being said, this is the last place something like this would be warranted. 99.9% of atheists don't give a shit what's between your legs, of what you like to put in you, or put in others. It's a non-issue here. However, if you want to talk about something, you can do so. As you have said yourself, you are already doing so. So why then do you want special treatment?

You're acting like you know that most of the atheists here wouldn't think an LGBT subforum is a good idea. You don't know that. You're assuming most people would agree with you.

No. The only thing I assumed was that atheists don't generally hold bigoted views towards gays and trannys. The rest was an cogent argument as to why this isn't the place for a sub-forum dedicated to the topic of LGBTQA? issues. Two separate things. Now, if you want to argue that atheists are generally more bigoted than I've given them credit for, then I'm willing to entertain that idea, but your description of what I did is incorrect.

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19-06-2017, 10:36 AM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(19-06-2017 07:54 AM)Emma Wrote:  
(17-06-2017 04:28 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  In Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia you're more likely to be killed for being gay. By in large the only gay people being killed in the West (for being gay) is by Muslims from Muslim-Majority countries, or their children. This isn't some societal issue in the West. This isn't to say the West is perfect. It's not, nor will any society ever be, but this is a community for atheists. There are communities for gay/trans issues. This isn't it. That being said, this is the last place something like this would be warranted. 99.9% of atheists don't give a shit what's between your legs, of what you like to put in you, or put in others. It's a non-issue here. However, if you want to talk about something, you can do so. As you have said yourself, you are already doing so. So why then do you want special treatment?

No, it does not follow that we should not seek to improve unfair conditions for those that do not have the most unfair conditions. There is little that most Americans can do to improve conditions for Afghans and Saudi's- that does not mean we should sit on our hands until things either deteriorate to that level of inhumanity or they catch up to our level of inhumanity.

Did you know that it's still legal in many US states to fire LGBTQ people simply for their LGBTQ status? The same is true for eviction and many other areas where you'd expect protections.

Quote:The regulation of LGBT employment discrimination in the United States varies by jurisdiction. Many, but far from all, states and localities prohibit bias in hiring, promotion, job assignment, termination, and compensation, as well as harassment on the basis of one's sexual orientation. Fewer extend those protections to cover sexual identity.

Moreover, there still exists a substantially higher risk of physical and verbal assault simply for being LGBTQ in the US.

Don't give me this "some people have it worse" bullshit as reason to ignore the problems and pretend they don't exist.

Well, I personally have contributed to the betterment of victimized minorities in those countries, and in America. And to pretend that sexual minorities and the like are in any danger whatsoever of being discriminated and threatened like they are in the middle east is the most absurd bullshit to fly out of your mouth that I've personally seen. You have more political capital, recognition, and support here than anywhere in the world, and that support is growing, not shrinking FFS. Don't be a Drama King Queen. As for the job thing, good. Employers should be able to fire anyone for any reason not in a contract. The free market should allow people to determine what conditions they will do business under. If my employer wanted to axe me because they thought atheists didn't represent their values, so be it. I don't want to work for people that hate me anyway. Sounds like a really bad relationship to be in.

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19-06-2017, 10:47 AM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(19-06-2017 10:36 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(19-06-2017 07:54 AM)Emma Wrote:  No, it does not follow that we should not seek to improve unfair conditions for those that do not have the most unfair conditions. There is little that most Americans can do to improve conditions for Afghans and Saudi's- that does not mean we should sit on our hands until things either deteriorate to that level of inhumanity or they catch up to our level of inhumanity.

Did you know that it's still legal in many US states to fire LGBTQ people simply for their LGBTQ status? The same is true for eviction and many other areas where you'd expect protections.


Moreover, there still exists a substantially higher risk of physical and verbal assault simply for being LGBTQ in the US.

Don't give me this "some people have it worse" bullshit as reason to ignore the problems and pretend they don't exist.

Well, I personally have contributed to the betterment of victimized minorities in those countries, and in America. And to pretend that sexual minorities and the like are in any danger whatsoever of being discriminated and threatened like they are in the middle east is the most absurd bullshit to fly out of your mouth that I've personally seen. You have more political capital, recognition, and support here than anywhere in the world, and that support is growing, not shrinking FFS. Don't be a Drama King Queen. As for the job thing, good. Employers should be able to fire anyone for any reason not in a contract. The free market should allow people to determine what conditions they will do business under. If my employer wanted to axe me because they thought atheists didn't represent their values, so be it. I don't want to work for people that hate me anyway. Sounds like a really bad relationship to be in.

Well maybe you stand to easily find another employer. It's not so easy for everyone else. That's why those protections exist. Also, I never said that the levels of danger and discrimination were comparable. YOU DID. And good for you for contributing to the betterment. Did you fix the situation? Nope.

And I never said that things were getting worse. But they aren't guaranteed not to.

And I don't think employers should be able to fire employees for any reason whatsoever outside of a contract. I think employees should be protected from flagrant abuse of power. Employees deserve such freedom to be able to live their lives outside the confines of the employers dictation. So long as they can do the job then they should not be fired from it- within reason, of course. That's why protected classes exist. Because employers cannot be trusted to treat employees with such fairness.
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19-06-2017, 10:47 AM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2017 10:54 AM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
You're both being drama queens about the idea of an LGBT subforum. You and earmuffs.

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19-06-2017, 10:59 AM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(19-06-2017 10:47 AM)Emma Wrote:  
(19-06-2017 10:36 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Well, I personally have contributed to the betterment of victimized minorities in those countries, and in America. And to pretend that sexual minorities and the like are in any danger whatsoever of being discriminated and threatened like they are in the middle east is the most absurd bullshit to fly out of your mouth that I've personally seen. You have more political capital, recognition, and support here than anywhere in the world, and that support is growing, not shrinking FFS. Don't be a Drama King Queen. As for the job thing, good. Employers should be able to fire anyone for any reason not in a contract. The free market should allow people to determine what conditions they will do business under. If my employer wanted to axe me because they thought atheists didn't represent their values, so be it. I don't want to work for people that hate me anyway. Sounds like a really bad relationship to be in.

Well maybe you stand to easily find another employer. It's not so easy for everyone else. That's why those protections exist. Also, I never said that the levels of danger and discrimination were comparable. YOU DID. And good for you for contributing to the betterment. Did you fix the situation? Nope.

And I never said that things were getting worse. But they aren't guaranteed not to.

And I don't think employers should be able to fire employees for any reason whatsoever outside of a contract. I think employees should be protected from flagrant abuse of power. Employees deserve such freedom to be able to live their lives outside the confines of the employers dictation. So long as they can do the job then they should not be fired from it- within reason, of course. That's why protected classes exist. Because employers cannot be trusted to treat employees with such fairness.

Quote:Employment at will law
At-will employment is a term used in U.S. labor law for contractual relationships in which an employee can be dismissed by an employer for any reason (that is, without having to establish "just cause" for termination), and without warning.

A lot of states have this in place. Even if a person is terminated from employment from one of the protected classes...the employee would have to prove that's the reason. All an employer has to say, at most, is that it's a business decision to terminate the employee/employer relationship. They actually have the right to give no reason at all.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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19-06-2017, 11:00 AM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(19-06-2017 10:36 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  And to pretend that sexual minorities and the like are in any danger whatsoever of being discriminated and threatened like they are in the middle east is the most absurd bullshit to fly out of your mouth that I've personally seen.

This is such an asinine thing to say. I compared LGBTQ risk of verbal and physical assault to cit-het individuals. Not to others in the Middle East or Africa or anywhere else. You are the one who brought that up as a way quieting me.
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