[split] LGBT (sub)section?
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19-06-2017, 11:53 AM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(19-06-2017 11:47 AM)Emma Wrote:  
(19-06-2017 11:15 AM)Anjele Wrote:  It's not a picnic in the working world as an woman who has been through breast cancer and is nearly 60.

Why do they need to know about the cancer? The gap in employment has to be explained.

The days of loyalty between workers and employers is pretty much a thing of the past.

While I sympathize with the employment hurdles that LGBT people may face, there are a lot of employment hurdles out there.

I'm sure it's no picnic. That's not an easy situation. And you should not have to face employment discrimination for your medical history. No one should. That's why we have protections in place. Unfortunately, yes, may have to disclose that you had a medical issue that kept you out of work. You should never have to disclose medical history, but I understand that's just not the reality we live in.

Yes, loyalty between workers and employers no long really exists. I'm pretty loyal to my company, however, because they accept that I'm trans. Because they were not going to fire me for coming out and transitioning while here. So for me, loyalty is there. But I know that if I stopped doing my work effectively, they'd rightfully fire me.

Just because a lot of employment hurdles exist, doesn't mean that LGBTQ people shouldn't have protected status- like religious people do, like people of color do, like women do, etc. I think that protected status should exist- even if it means that employees have to prove the discrimination in court. That's the same playing field for all protected groups.

Would you be interested in recording a Skype debate/conversation regarding this topic sometime? If you're interested PM me and I'll set it up and post it on TTA. I think we could come to a better understanding with an actual conversation. Anyhow, the offer is out there.

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19-06-2017, 11:53 AM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(19-06-2017 11:53 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(19-06-2017 11:47 AM)Emma Wrote:  I'm sure it's no picnic. That's not an easy situation. And you should not have to face employment discrimination for your medical history. No one should. That's why we have protections in place. Unfortunately, yes, may have to disclose that you had a medical issue that kept you out of work. You should never have to disclose medical history, but I understand that's just not the reality we live in.

Yes, loyalty between workers and employers no long really exists. I'm pretty loyal to my company, however, because they accept that I'm trans. Because they were not going to fire me for coming out and transitioning while here. So for me, loyalty is there. But I know that if I stopped doing my work effectively, they'd rightfully fire me.

Just because a lot of employment hurdles exist, doesn't mean that LGBTQ people shouldn't have protected status- like religious people do, like people of color do, like women do, etc. I think that protected status should exist- even if it means that employees have to prove the discrimination in court. That's the same playing field for all protected groups.

Would you be interested in recording a Skype debate/conversation regarding this topic sometime? If you're interested PM me and I'll set it up and post it on TTA. I think we could come to a better understanding with an actual conversation. Anyhow, the offer is out there.

Just make sure you don't imply she's a tranny, like you already did.

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19-06-2017, 12:09 PM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(19-06-2017 11:22 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  @Emma

The quotes are getting too weildy, so I'll just respond to all at once.

You seem to have assumed an awful lot about me without knowing much about me or my situation. Just because we came to different conclusions on particular topics. That being said, I'm not particularly interested in competing for the title of 'who has it worse'. If you want that title, you can have it.

As for 'silencing you' and telling you to 'sit down and shut up', that never happened. Nor was it implied. It's a figment. Engaging you in conversation is about as diametrically opposed to 'silencing you' and I could get.

Your claim of what my argument is is malformed. Why would I claim to have contributed (however little) to equality, and then simultaneously claim that to do so is futile or unworthy? That's a non-sequitur. This should be an obvious sign that have misunderstood me.

As for the last bit, you've made more assumptions, and then confused equity with equality.

Maybe you would explain your situation then? Because you're suggesting that everyone faces the same level of difficulty in potential employment bias if they are educated properly. It sure sounds like you don't recognize that bias exists and makes life more difficult for some than others.

The non-sequitur is that you've said that LGBTQ people in other parts of the world have it worse than we do here, so we should accept our lot here as it is.

And you are right, I did make assumptions. I'm not confused about the differences between equity and equality. Maybe I have equal rights (we can both be fired for any reason, were we both living and working in Florida), but I do not have equity in applying for a job. Assuming a cis-het white male applies for a job, he will face less bias in their potential selection than I would, hypothetically, were the employer aware of my trans status (and they would become aware, because previous employers have my job history under my dead name). Now an employer has to decide if it's going to be too much risk or too much trouble to have a trans person working there- that is, if they aren't immediately disgusted by my mere existence.

I would rather it not be an issue in my employment whatsoever, but it is by necessity. And living-wage jobs aren't a dime-a-dozen where I live and in my industry/skill set.

But just the same as you, if I lost my job, you can bet I would make something work. I'd do whatever it took to keep my bills paid (aside form sex-work and illegal stuff).
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19-06-2017, 12:11 PM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(19-06-2017 11:53 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(19-06-2017 11:47 AM)Emma Wrote:  I'm sure it's no picnic. That's not an easy situation. And you should not have to face employment discrimination for your medical history. No one should. That's why we have protections in place. Unfortunately, yes, may have to disclose that you had a medical issue that kept you out of work. You should never have to disclose medical history, but I understand that's just not the reality we live in.

Yes, loyalty between workers and employers no long really exists. I'm pretty loyal to my company, however, because they accept that I'm trans. Because they were not going to fire me for coming out and transitioning while here. So for me, loyalty is there. But I know that if I stopped doing my work effectively, they'd rightfully fire me.

Just because a lot of employment hurdles exist, doesn't mean that LGBTQ people shouldn't have protected status- like religious people do, like people of color do, like women do, etc. I think that protected status should exist- even if it means that employees have to prove the discrimination in court. That's the same playing field for all protected groups.

Would you be interested in recording a Skype debate/conversation regarding this topic sometime? If you're interested PM me and I'll set it up and post it on TTA. I think we could come to a better understanding with an actual conversation. Anyhow, the offer is out there.

I'll keep it in mind, but I'm a better writer than speaker and would struggle to communicate effectively by voice so I'm unlikely to take you up on that offer. Talking is not my strong-suit.
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19-06-2017, 12:18 PM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2017 12:22 PM by Larai19.)
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(19-06-2017 11:53 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(19-06-2017 11:53 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Would you be interested in recording a Skype debate/conversation regarding this topic sometime? If you're interested PM me and I'll set it up and post it on TTA. I think we could come to a better understanding with an actual conversation. Anyhow, the offer is out there.

Just make sure you don't imply she's a tranny, like you already did.

*edited for not reading the thread clearly*
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19-06-2017, 12:23 PM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(19-06-2017 12:18 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  
(19-06-2017 11:53 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  Just make sure you don't imply she's a tranny, like you already did.

*edited for not reading the thread clearly*

That's happened to me before. Tongue

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19-06-2017, 12:24 PM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
(19-06-2017 12:23 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(19-06-2017 12:18 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  *edited for not reading the thread clearly*

That's happened to me before. Tongue

I'm quite sorry. Smile
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19-06-2017, 12:29 PM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
Okay, so...

Within the perspective of entertaining both parties I've reached a conclusion based off of where both stands.
I do genuinely think that our point could be made without name-calling. Both sides.
I defend Muff's because he didn't know his audience and now there's a fight between two parties, which I think they should both determine how they speak to each other...

However, the only way we'll have a productive conversation about our belief systems and maybe come to a bit of a conclusion is by not being assholes to each other...

I think right now we should be considering what's more important the debate or self-righteous attitudes towards our convictions...
Dark Light, I'm quite on your side but you honestly can't blame Emma for taking that you mean harm by saying "drama king" and what have you... I quite like you so please don't take it as an offense, just an observation...
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19-06-2017, 12:31 PM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2017 12:35 PM by Larai19.)
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
Btw, this isn't to say that I want to censor name calling. Or anything of the sort. I don't think words should have a huge impact on people like they do, however when you go in with intentions of getting fired up nothing productive will happen...

It's just fueling the fire...

Also, I like to think that everyone here is well-intentioned on actually speaking their minds about the issue...
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19-06-2017, 12:41 PM
RE: [split] LGBT (sub)section?
FWIW, I noticed the drama king thing, but I chose not to say anything about it. It makes me roll my eyes, but whatever, it was a stupid little jab and I didn't want to detract from the conversation by acknowledging it.
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