[split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
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14-09-2015, 08:43 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(14-09-2015 04:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The pub owner does not own the lungs of his employees.

You're exactly right. He does not own his employees as slaves. In fact, his employees have the freedom to leave at anytime if they don't like the working conditions. That's the beauty of freedom. If you don't want to be in the sun all day and be at risk of falling off of roofs, then you don't have to be a roofer. If you don't want to risk drowning from a crab fishing accident, you don't have to be a crab fishermen. If you don't want to be exposed to excessive amounts of paint fumes, you don't have to work in a auto-body shop. If you don't want to work in a smoky diner, you don't have to be a smoky-diner waitress. Freedom....it's a wonderful thing.
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14-09-2015, 08:46 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(14-09-2015 08:43 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 04:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The pub owner does not own the lungs of his employees.

You're exactly right. He does not own his employees as slaves. In fact, his employees have the freedom to leave at anytime if they don't like the working conditions. That's the beauty of freedom. If you don't want to be in the sun all day and be at risk of falling off of roofs, then you don't have to be a roofer. If you don't want to risk drowning from a crab fishing accident, you don't have to be a crab fishermen. If you don't want to be exposed to excessive amounts of paint fumes, you don't have to work in a auto-body shop. If you don't want to work in a smoky diner, you don't have to be a smoky-diner waitress. Freedom....it's a wonderful thing.

You are so naive. Rent needs to be paid, children fed, rent paid....

You sound like you have had an easy time of it.

If I am wrong, my apologies. But that is how you come across mate. You're currently talking with a guy who has been working since age 8. Like many others. One does NOT always have a choice.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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14-09-2015, 08:47 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(14-09-2015 08:43 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 04:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The pub owner does not own the lungs of his employees.

You're exactly right. He does not own his employees as slaves. In fact, his employees have the freedom to leave at anytime if they don't like the working conditions. That's the beauty of freedom. If you don't want to be in the sun all day and be at risk of falling off of roofs, then you don't have to be a roofer. If you don't want to risk drowning from a crab fishing accident, you don't have to be a crab fishermen. If you don't want to be exposed to excessive amounts of paint fumes, you don't have to work in a auto-body shop. If you don't want to work in a smoky diner, you don't have to be a smoky-diner waitress. Freedom....it's a wonderful thing.

Last I checked, there wasn't exactly a freedom to just get another job.

Sometimes going off the job is not a viable recourse, regardless of how hazardous or unhealthy the environment is, if the alternative is risking the possibility that you can't get employed again, which is a thing.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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14-09-2015, 08:57 PM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2015 09:14 PM by Matt Finney.)
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(14-09-2015 08:46 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 08:43 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  You're exactly right. He does not own his employees as slaves. In fact, his employees have the freedom to leave at anytime if they don't like the working conditions. That's the beauty of freedom. If you don't want to be in the sun all day and be at risk of falling off of roofs, then you don't have to be a roofer. If you don't want to risk drowning from a crab fishing accident, you don't have to be a crab fishermen. If you don't want to be exposed to excessive amounts of paint fumes, you don't have to work in a auto-body shop. If you don't want to work in a smoky diner, you don't have to be a smoky-diner waitress. Freedom....it's a wonderful thing.

You are so naive. Rent needs to be paid, children fed, rent paid....

You sound like you have had an easy time of it.

If I am wrong, my apologies. But that is how you come across mate. You're currently talking with a guy who has been working since age 8. Like many others. One does NOT always have a choice.

I am lucky compared to most in the world, I will admit that. But if your only complaint is that you have to deal with cig smoke at work, then you also have a very good life compared to most people on this planet.

I've worked some very crappy jobs in my life, and that's what motivated me to find better employment conditions.
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14-09-2015, 09:00 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(14-09-2015 08:47 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 08:43 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  You're exactly right. He does not own his employees as slaves. In fact, his employees have the freedom to leave at anytime if they don't like the working conditions. That's the beauty of freedom. If you don't want to be in the sun all day and be at risk of falling off of roofs, then you don't have to be a roofer. If you don't want to risk drowning from a crab fishing accident, you don't have to be a crab fishermen. If you don't want to be exposed to excessive amounts of paint fumes, you don't have to work in a auto-body shop. If you don't want to work in a smoky diner, you don't have to be a smoky-diner waitress. Freedom....it's a wonderful thing.

Last I checked, there wasn't exactly a freedom to just get another job.

Sometimes going off the job is not a viable recourse, regardless of how hazardous or unhealthy the environment is, if the alternative is risking the possibility that you can't get employed again, which is a thing.

In the U.S. you actually do have the freedom to change jobs. I've had probably about dozen different jobs in my life. Many of them SUCKED, so I tried to set up conditions (education and experience) that would allow me to find better working conditions. I'm glad we don't force people to do certain jobs here.
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14-09-2015, 09:06 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(14-09-2015 09:00 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 08:47 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Last I checked, there wasn't exactly a freedom to just get another job.

Sometimes going off the job is not a viable recourse, regardless of how hazardous or unhealthy the environment is, if the alternative is risking the possibility that you can't get employed again, which is a thing.

In the U.S. you actually do have the freedom to change jobs. I've had probably about dozen different jobs in my life. Many of them SUCKED, so I tried to set up conditions (education and experience) that would allow me to find better working conditions. I'm glad we don't force people to do certain jobs here.

That is clearly not what I said.

I will restate the crux of it: there may be a freedom to quit your job, but doesn't mean that you'll be able to get a new one.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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14-09-2015, 09:11 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(14-09-2015 09:06 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 09:00 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  In the U.S. you actually do have the freedom to change jobs. I've had probably about dozen different jobs in my life. Many of them SUCKED, so I tried to set up conditions (education and experience) that would allow me to find better working conditions. I'm glad we don't force people to do certain jobs here.

That is clearly not what I said.

I will restate the crux of it: there may be a freedom to quit your job, but doesn't mean that you'll be able to get a new one.

Yeah, I highly recommend finding a new job before quitting your current. You still have freedom to find a different job though. You also have the freedom to not work at smoky diners in the first place. Smile
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14-09-2015, 09:36 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
I have a Welsh mining heritage.

Not this one...

[Image: 074-1200.png]

This one...

[Image: pic4.jpg]

So perhaps I'm biased.

Nah! Fuckem!

If they don't want to work for me, they have the freedom to go and work somewhere else!

And fuck congress too! Don't they understand about my freedom to do what I like on my private property?

Bastards!

Quote:In 1891, Congress passed the first federal statute governing mine safety. The 1891 law was relatively modest legislation that applied only to mines in U.S. territories, and, among other things, established minimum ventilation requirements at underground coal mines and prohibited operators from employing children under 12 years of age.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_Safet...egislation

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14-09-2015, 09:57 PM (This post was last modified: 15-09-2015 12:12 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(14-09-2015 08:43 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 04:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The pub owner does not own the lungs of his employees.

You're exactly right. He does not own his employees as slaves. In fact, his employees have the freedom to leave at anytime if they don't like the working conditions. That's the beauty of freedom. If you don't want to be in the sun all day and be at risk of falling off of roofs, then you don't have to be a roofer. If you don't want to risk drowning from a crab fishing accident, you don't have to be a crab fishermen. If you don't want to be exposed to excessive amounts of paint fumes, you don't have to work in a auto-body shop. If you don't want to work in a smoky diner, you don't have to be a smoky-diner waitress. Freedom....it's a wonderful thing.


Freedom is never absolute.


The roofer is expected to meet minimum safety standards, aimed at preventing harm in the work place. Not everyone that enters a construction job is expected to be an expert and be familiar with all of the potential hazards of a job, thus why safety regulations are put in place to protect people. It's why you no longer see people jumping from girder to girder hundreds of feet in the air while building skyscrapers, but likewise deaths from accidental falling have been drastically decreased thanks to better safety standards and practices; so that some ignorant schmuck doesn't get himself killed on a 9-5 job over an easily avoidable accident, because we now have the knowledge to do better.

Crab fisher? You have to fish crab out of the water, no way around it. You don't need to operate a pub, bar, or restaurant with cigarette smoke. Not the same circumstances. Even if you take the job, knowing full well you cannot swim, their are still safety regulations in place for that. Just because you do know how to swim, that doesn't absolve the boat's owner/operator from needing to provide life vests for the entire crew.

Paint fumes? That's why we have respirators, so that you don't breathe those fumes in, because we know they are harmful. If your employer doesn't provide those, they would be in clear violation of OSHA and other safety standards.

What if the pub had been smoke-free, then they pull the regulations and allow smoking. An employee there doesn't want to inhale the smoke, maybe they even have asthma. Sure they have the 'freedom' to quit. But it's all based on circumstance. Do we have the social safety net in place to allow this person to voluntarily go on unemployment while they looks for a new smoke-free job? Are you willing to put up the money so that they can pay their rent, their insurance, and put food on the table while they seek new employment, all so that their employer has the 'freedom' to allowing carcinogen infused air into his establishment? Are you willing to pay for their employee's 'freedom' to seek other employment without falling into destitution? Because if you're unwilling to put your money where your mouth is, your vaunted 'freedom' is a fucking illusion.


Freedom to allow employers to needlessly endanger their employees is not a freedom worth having. Drinking Beverage

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14-09-2015, 11:38 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(14-09-2015 09:57 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 08:43 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  You're exactly right. He does not own his employees as slaves. In fact, his employees have the freedom to leave at anytime if they don't like the working conditions. That's the beauty of freedom. If you don't want to be in the sun all day and be at risk of falling off of roofs, then you don't have to be a roofer. If you don't want to risk drowning from a crab fishing accident, you don't have to be a crab fishermen. If you don't want to be exposed to excessive amounts of paint fumes, you don't have to work in a auto-body shop. If you don't want to work in a smoky diner, you don't have to be a smoky-diner waitress. Freedom....it's a wonderful thing.


Freedom is never absolute.


The roofer is expected to meet minimum safety standards, aimed at preventing harm in the work place. Not everyone that enters a construction job is expected to be an expert and be familiar with all of the potential hazards of a job, thus why safety regulations are put in place to protect people. It's why you no longer see people jumping from girder to girder hundreds of feet in the air while building skyscrapers, but likewise deaths from accidental falling have been drastically decreased thanks to better safety standards and practices; so that some ignorant schmuck doesn't get himself killed on a 9-5 job over an easily avoidable accident, because we now have the knowledge to do better.

Crab fisher? You have to fish crab out of the water, no way around it. You don't need to operate a pub, bar, or restaurant with cigarette smoke. Not the same circumstances. Even if you take the job, knowing full well you cannot swim, their are still safety regulations in place for that. Just because you do know how to swim, that doesn't absolve the boat's owner/operator from needing to provide life vests for the entire crew.

Paint fumes? That's why we have respirators, so that you don't breathe those fumes in, because we know they are harmful. If your employer doesn't provide those, they would be in clear violation of OSHA and other safety standards.

What if the pub had been smoke-free, then they pull the regulations and allow smoking. An employee there doesn't want to inhale the smoke, maybe they even have asthma. Sure they have the 'freedom' to quit. But it's all based on circumstance. Do we have the social safety net in place to allow this person to voluntarily go on unemployment while they looks for a new smoke-free job? Are you willing to put up the money so that they can pay their rent, their insurance, and put food on the table while they seek new employment, all so that their employer has the 'freedom' to allowing carcinogen infused air into his establishment? Are you willing to pay for their employee's 'freedom' to seek other employment without falling into destitution? Because if you're unwilling to put your money where your mouth is, you're vaunted 'freedom' is a fucking illusion.


Freedom to allow employers to needlessly endanger their employees is not a freedom worth having. Drinking Beverage

VerVery well said and thank you
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