[split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
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13-09-2015, 02:29 PM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 02:25 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(13-09-2015 02:17 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  All I'm saying is that if a dude owns a bar, it's my preference that he is allowed to decide whether or not he wants to allow smoking. If there's a demand for smoke-free bars, they'll show up. Basic supply/demand principle guarantees it.

I worked in bars for years - and that doesn't hold up.

What bar owners did is put in "smoke eaters" -- which really didn't cure the problem. People who drink a lot, tend to smoke a lot as well. Before they banned smoking in bars in Michigan by law - I only know of one bar, that banned smoking -- and that because the owner quit smoking and his wife had asthma.

While bars are privately owned - they are considered "public spaces" insofar as anyone -- including non-smokers could enter. By saying "you can stay out" -- you're basically discriminating against the non-smoker.

Herein lies the why ---

When determining who's right is being infringed -- it's the "doer of the evil" that's going to lose.

You DON'T have to smoke, but you DO have to breath.

Therefore it's the lesser of two evils, to discriminate against the smoker.

Right....so by your logic if a fellow opened up a non-smoking bar he'd be booming with business as all of the non-smokers would flock there to breathe the clean air.

If the demand is there, someone will show up with the supply.
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13-09-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
Matt you still have failed to respond to what happened to me. If you thank want to hold the position you do you need to address every scenario.
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13-09-2015, 02:44 PM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
Quote: Maria Goldstein, a Roman Catholic,

Maria Goldstein? Something does not smell right here. About what I'd expect from Woodie's crowd.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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13-09-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 02:40 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Matt you still have failed to respond to what happened to me. If you thank want to hold the position you do you need to address every scenario.

I don't really have a good answer for you. I still think unions are the way to go when seeking to improve working conditions.

Lot's of people breathe in dangerous chemicals at work. Welders come to mind.

Unionize and negotiate better working conditions is all that I have. The other option would be to not work at establishments that allow smoking. Even though you felt as if you had no other option, that's almost never the case. We all have options. If a person really doesn't want to breathe in welding gases for example, perhaps he shouldn't be a welder etc....
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13-09-2015, 03:32 PM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 02:56 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(13-09-2015 02:40 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Matt you still have failed to respond to what happened to me. If you thank want to hold the position you do you need to address every scenario.

I don't really have a good answer for you. I still think unions are the way to go when seeking to improve working conditions.

Lot's of people breathe in dangerous chemicals at work. Welders come to mind.

Unionize and negotiate better working conditions is all that I have. The other option would be to not work at establishments that allow smoking. Even though you felt as if you had no other option, that's almost never the case. We all have options. If a person really doesn't want to breathe in welding gases for example, perhaps he shouldn't be a welder etc....

I knew thatscwhat you were going to say. The problem is that small businesses like this there is no unionizing to be done. And you have people who have no choice but to take a job that allows smoking. So then you can't use the argument to go else where and the supply and demand will take care of itself. Thats when government should step in which they did. So your agreement still doesn't make sense.

Eta: so what would you propose a single to do when faced with her health over time or the present of making sure her kids have the basics?
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13-09-2015, 04:42 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 03:32 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Eta: so what would you propose a single to do when faced with her health over time or the present of making sure her kids have the basics?

IDK...the best she can?

What would you have done if that restaurant was all staffed up and not hiring?

What would you have done if the only job available required you to be outside all day in exposure to harmful, cancer-causing, UV radiation?

What if the only jobs available required the use of harsh cleaning chemicals?

I don't have all of the answers lol! Maybe we'll have to agree to disagree on this one? Unsure
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13-09-2015, 05:01 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 04:42 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(13-09-2015 03:32 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Eta: so what would you propose a single to do when faced with her health over time or the present of making sure her kids have the basics?

IDK...the best she can?

What would you have done if that restaurant was all staffed up and not hiring?

What would you have done if the only job available required you to be outside all day in exposure to harmful, cancer-causing, UV radiation?

What if the only jobs available required the use of harsh cleaning chemicals?

I don't have all of the answers lol! Maybe we'll have to agree to disagree on this one? Unsure

I guess so. However since you don't have all the answers then we can at least agree that we can do what we can to help with our health. Meaning that if something is harmful such as smoking to others and not just that one person then we should do what we can to give those people the freedom to breath clean air!

And i did what I had to to which was take the only job available to me at that time. There was nothing I could have done except perhaps be on welfare and a lot of the time that doesn't work because they will yell you to take the job or be cut off since you are offered a job and you turned it down. See the cycle?
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13-09-2015, 05:09 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
You have not made a compelling case for overturning health and safety regulations regarding smoking in businesses. The simple facts are smoking causes serious health problems for not only the smoker but anyone around them. In lieu of that the laws are there to protect everyone from these negative effects. If you choose to smoke that's fine you may do so in your home (I despise the laws that outlaw smoking inside ones own house) or in designated public areas other than that your needing a fix does not overrule everyone else's right to a healthy environment.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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13-09-2015, 06:48 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 05:09 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You have not made a compelling case for overturning health and safety regulations regarding smoking in businesses. The simple facts are smoking causes serious health problems for not only the smoker but anyone around them. In lieu of that the laws are there to protect everyone from these negative effects. If you choose to smoke that's fine you may do so in your home (I despise the laws that outlaw smoking inside ones own house) or in designated public areas other than that your needing a fix does not overrule everyone else's right to a healthy environment.

Not really trying to make a case for health and safety, I'm trying to make a case for freedom. We'd be a lot healthier and safer if we banned alcohol, but we'd lose a lot of freedom; freedom I'm not willing to give up. I'm only advocating for freedom of choice. I only want people like bar and restaurant owners to have the freedom to choose whether they want to smoke or not. If the market demands smoke-free establishments, then that's what we'll see. There's no need for government to tell bars and restaurants whether or not they can allow smoking.
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13-09-2015, 10:45 PM
RE: [split] Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 06:48 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  ...
Not really trying to make a case for health and safety, I'm trying to make a case for freedom.
...

I want the freedom to choose on which side of the road I drive.

When anyone else doesn't make the same choice as me, it's their problem if I hit them.

Bastards!

Dodgy

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