[split] Political Memes (disability discussion)
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09-07-2017, 01:05 PM
RE: [split] Political Memes (disability discussion)
(09-07-2017 01:00 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 12:45 PM)Dom Wrote:  Hubby had no placard - he was RECOVERING! It didn't seem worth the process - by the time we would actually get the placard he would likely not need it anymore.

I get that younger people don't have the experience to understand the details of health issues - but younger people also know that one doesn't make judgements based on ignorance.

I always assumed it was up to each persons judgement to use them if they think they need it, and I thought it was a service provided as a courtesy by store owners. Maybe I'm uninformed here on this?

You are. It's the law, and based on the overall number of parking spaces in the lot.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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09-07-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: [split] Political Memes (disability discussion)
(09-07-2017 01:03 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 12:55 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I don't know that I've seen Ruby's other posts on this topic, though I do know people's views on these things can be strongly affected by their environment. I don't think Ruby is lacking in the capacity for Empathy so I think she is quite capable of listening to people's thoughts and modifying her own position on this in light of additional evidence.

I think Ruby's concern with people abusing tools needed for people with disabilities is a valid concern. I'll admit the association of fat and laziness took me back a bit since I'm fat and well my parents just say I'm fat and lazy despite them having seen how much I've struggled to maintain a healthy weight. But I don't think she meant that to be the cornerstone of her comment. So I'm willing to um... not focus so much on that and focus on what I think her real concern is, hence my comments.

I mean I could be wrong, but I've talked to her quite a bit in PM's and she's always seemed empathetic and kind over all, a bit prone to the kind of strong stances most younger people are capable of possessing, while lacking a little of the experience which tempers most adults. But that's nothing to jump on her case about I think. I think she's right in line with most 19 year olds....But maybe I'm missing some context here, I don't know. I was unaware that she had disputed this idea with people here in the past.

I mean.... maybe I'm mistaken? help me out mom.

I'm sure you know how to do a search.

I'll try and find the examples you're referring to, I know you wouldn't make shit up and you wouldn't say this without a damn good reason. I mean I do know Ruby has made some comments about racial issues that really rubbed some people the wrong way. I didn't know she had talked previously about disability or weight before. I'll do some digging.

@Ruby, I do like you and value your friendship, but if I see something you said that I think is wrong I'm gonna call you out on it. I'll still prolly like you and be your friend (unless it's reallllly bad). So no hard feelings if I end up having to call you out on something k. I have no intention of picking on you.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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09-07-2017, 01:09 PM
RE: [split] Political Memes (disability discussion)
(09-07-2017 01:05 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 01:00 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I always assumed it was up to each persons judgement to use them if they think they need it, and I thought it was a service provided as a courtesy by store owners. Maybe I'm uninformed here on this?

You are. It's the law, and based on the overall number of parking spaces in the lot.

Thanks mom, I never knew that. Though I never really thought about it much before either.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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09-07-2017, 01:12 PM
RE: [split] Political Memes (disability discussion)
(09-07-2017 01:00 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 12:45 PM)Dom Wrote:  Hubby had no placard - he was RECOVERING! It didn't seem worth the process - by the time we would actually get the placard he would likely not need it anymore.

I get that younger people don't have the experience to understand the details of health issues - but younger people also know that one doesn't make judgements based on ignorance.

>.> But he didn't use the handicap spot right? I mean I guess maybe I'm on the wrong page here cause I don't care if he uses the cart thingy to sit down while shopping. There's no way to know at all who's using those or for what reasons. Passing judgement on someone for using that seems a bit unreasonable to me. As far as I know there's no law prohibiting anyone from having access to those carts, I always assumed it was up to each persons judgement to use them if they think they need it, and I thought it was a service provided as a courtesy by store owners. Maybe I'm uninformed here on this? My big thing was about the handicap spots and abusing that to the expense of people who really need it. And I do in fact know people who have abused those spots and they have no remorse about it.

We didn't use the spot - which means that I had to stop the car right in front of the entrance, block the area designed for people to load, run inside and get a cart, get hubby out of the car and into the cart, and leave him there by himself while I parked the car. A couple of weeks later he was able to lean on me while making it from the entrance to the cart - of course I was still blocking traffic. A couple more weeks and he could make it from the entrance to the cart without me, and we only blocked the entrance while he slowly and carefully got out of the car.

I hope we went through enough contortions to please you - the honking cars who were pissed at our blocking the way were not at all happy.

There was no way we could have done this without pissing people off.

I kinda thought we were in a compassionate society and people would help. No help, just stares and honking. Sadcryface

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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09-07-2017, 01:27 PM (This post was last modified: 09-07-2017 01:30 PM by JesseB.)
RE: [split] Political Memes (disability discussion)
(09-07-2017 01:12 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 01:00 PM)JesseB Wrote:  >.> But he didn't use the handicap spot right? I mean I guess maybe I'm on the wrong page here cause I don't care if he uses the cart thingy to sit down while shopping. There's no way to know at all who's using those or for what reasons. Passing judgement on someone for using that seems a bit unreasonable to me. As far as I know there's no law prohibiting anyone from having access to those carts, I always assumed it was up to each persons judgement to use them if they think they need it, and I thought it was a service provided as a courtesy by store owners. Maybe I'm uninformed here on this? My big thing was about the handicap spots and abusing that to the expense of people who really need it. And I do in fact know people who have abused those spots and they have no remorse about it.

We didn't use the spot - which means that I had to stop the car right in front of the entrance, block the area designed for people to load, run inside and get a cart, get hubby out of the car and into the cart, and leave him there by himself while I parked the car. A couple of weeks later he was able to lean on me while making it from the entrance to the cart - of course I was still blocking traffic. A couple more weeks and he could make it from the entrance to the cart without me, and we only blocked the entrance while he slowly and carefully got out of the car.

I hope we went through enough contortions to please you - the honking cars who were pissed at our blocking the way were not at all happy.

There was no way we could have done this without pissing people off.

I kinda thought we were in a compassionate society and people would help. No help, just stares and honking. Sadcryface

What would have pleased me would be you having a placard, clearly you needed one. They should have a system where a DR can give you a like temporary one for short term things like what your husband went through, without having to wait so long that it becomes useless by the time you get it. Or something. But I get what you're saying here. And that is a huge problem. Also, if you used the handycap spot with or without a good reason, even if you park sideways and block all the spaces like a real dick. I'm not going to say a damn thing to you. When I'm out and about I am busy with my day, I'm not inclined to go police what other people do, I don't give you a dirty look or treat you poorly for it either. Like I said I know people who blatantly abuse it, they aren't quite or shy about it. They'll openly tell you if you ask. And I think you can appreciate how fucked up that is ya?

And yea, if the rules are designed to fuck you over that bad, I got no problem with you fucking everyone else over. They can honk all they want, but I think any action you take in that kinda extreme situation is warranted. They can fucking wait, a few min so your husband can get into a store isn't gonna kill them.

This might not count for much, especially after the fact, but I would have helped.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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09-07-2017, 01:46 PM
RE: [split] Political Memes (disability discussion)
(09-07-2017 01:12 PM)Dom Wrote:  We didn't use the spot - which means that I had to stop the car right in front of the entrance, block the area designed for people to load, run inside and get a cart, get hubby out of the car and into the cart, and leave him there by himself while I parked the car. A couple of weeks later he was able to lean on me while making it from the entrance to the cart - of course I was still blocking traffic. A couple more weeks and he could make it from the entrance to the cart without me, and we only blocked the entrance while he slowly and carefully got out of the car.

I hope we went through enough contortions to please you - the honking cars who were pissed at our blocking the way were not at all happy.

There was no way we could have done this without pissing people off.

I kinda thought we were in a compassionate society and people would help. No help, just stares and honking. Sadcryface

I get it. Hug If you don't have the plaque, then you risk a ticket and those fines are hefty.

I'm kinda surprised tho his doctor didn't give you one and it sucks.

They gave one to my MIL when she got really sick (actually after both her knee and hip surgeries they also gave her one). Her bf used to use it for himself....

That annoyed me, so when she couldn't walk anymore we took it and put it away. Kinda passive aggressively bitchy of me I know.

Both my parents were disabled so it's just more baggage that I carry around.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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09-07-2017, 02:12 PM
RE: [split] Political Memes (disability discussion)
(09-07-2017 01:46 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 01:12 PM)Dom Wrote:  We didn't use the spot - which means that I had to stop the car right in front of the entrance, block the area designed for people to load, run inside and get a cart, get hubby out of the car and into the cart, and leave him there by himself while I parked the car. A couple of weeks later he was able to lean on me while making it from the entrance to the cart - of course I was still blocking traffic. A couple more weeks and he could make it from the entrance to the cart without me, and we only blocked the entrance while he slowly and carefully got out of the car.

I hope we went through enough contortions to please you - the honking cars who were pissed at our blocking the way were not at all happy.

There was no way we could have done this without pissing people off.

I kinda thought we were in a compassionate society and people would help. No help, just stares and honking. Sadcryface

I get it. Hug If you don't have the plaque, then you risk a ticket and those fines are hefty.

I'm kinda surprised tho his doctor didn't give you one and it sucks.

They gave one to my MIL when she got really sick (actually after both her knee and hip surgeries they also gave her one). Her bf used to use it for himself....

That annoyed me, so when she couldn't walk anymore we took it and put it away. Kinda passive aggressively bitchy of me I know.

Both my parents were disabled so it's just more baggage that I carry around.

It's a disconnect between the doc and the physical therapist - my taking hubby to the store didn't come up until the PT said hubby needed to get "out of the bubble" and among people. As soon as hubby had learned how to get to the car from the house (increased strength), and into the car (that is actually really hard!) the PT said to take him with me on errands.

The docs - probably they didn't even think he would recover that far - he was sent home in "guarded" condition because they didn't know what else to do for him anymore. He was not ambulatory and hooked up to a wound vac then. They disconnected the intravenous feeding tubes and sent him home. I gave him weed and got him eating again - verrry slowly.

The trip to the supermarket was supposed to be a therapeutic treat - a reward for becoming ambulatory (hard work) and so he could pick out his own food again...and get out among people.

It would have just been nice had he been treated nicely.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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09-07-2017, 02:36 PM
RE: [split] Political Memes (disability discussion)
(01-07-2017 06:56 AM)Dom Wrote:  After recouping from his cancer for a time, my hubby looked normal and walked normal - for like 5 minutes, then he faltered and had to sit. He used the carts. I hated people for looking at him funny.

SOMETIMES YOU CANNOT SEE DISABLILITIES AND YOUR REACTIONS HURT VULNERABLE PEOPLE!!!!!!!

And you'd be surprised how many people you see who are using shopping carts as walkers. They, too, look normal but cannot walk more than a few minutes without walker. Getting from the car to the carts may be all they can do.

Shame on you people. Some day that shoe will be on your foot, you are only human yourself.

I once parked my motorcycle in a gimp spot, and had a cop come up and start writing me a ticket..... I smartmouthed him a bit, just enough to get his blood pressure up... You should have seen the look on his face when he walked around the back of the bike to get the plate number, and saw the handicap plate.

He didn't know they had just become available for bikes.


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09-07-2017, 03:22 PM
RE: [split] Political Memes (disability discussion)
(09-07-2017 12:41 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-07-2017 12:29 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Maybe a teaching moment for one of the younger members here instead of piling on would be more helpful.

At 19 I didn't realize that some people could be quite limited physically if they didn't look outwardly so. Now I know much more having clicked along several more decades.

After my mastectomies I was severely anemic and that went undiagnosed for a time. My thyroid was also jacked up. I was weak as a kitten though I didn't look like I was. I didn't do chemo so I didn't have the telltale signs of being bald or partially so or having the common swollen look with sunken eyes often seen in chemo patients.

I did not request a placard...partly because I am too stubborn to ask for one.

How about a little leading by example and teaching instead of vitriol and superiority.

I am a bit disappointed and taken aback.

To be fair this isn't the first time Ruby has expressed her opinion on this topic.

I have opened and looked over every one of Ruby's posts (221 in all) and this is the thread where the topic came up.

I get it. Most of us know people who need handicapped spots or the carts at the store but who outwardly appear to be okay. It's an emotional topic. I think it is for her too as her stepfather needs these things and sometimes isn't able to have access due to people who do not appear to need them. That doesn't mean they don't need them.

Chances are that she has heard family state this type of thing, frequently...that fat, lazy people are depriving her step father of something that would make his life easier.

Her perception of the situation may well be skewed but ganging up and yelling isn't going to change her perception of the issue.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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09-07-2017, 03:49 PM
RE: [split] Political Memes (disability discussion)
This sort of thing is an important lesson to learn at any time in life. What you see on the outside of a person tells you next to nothing about what is on the inside.

It is easier to come to this lesson if you or someone you love looks "normal" and "capable" and "efficient" but it not any of those things and you have had to endure glares and comments from others who do not know.

Why are human beings so hard on each other?

Why are we unable to have patience, have compassion and have more patience, while considering what the trials of others may be?

A man pausing too long...according to you...at an intersection may be like my son, who has always had a problem with perspective and proceeds always with much caution.

A woman who looks terrific, slim, strong and happy could be like my daughter and have fibromyalgia, a heart condition (since corrected through surgeries) and mild dysautonomia, which comes and goes seemingly, and recurrent RA. She never took a placard, either, and we always park at a distance to save the closer parking spots for elderly people or those who need them, whether they are officially handicapped or not.

A clerk or salesperson who makes a mistake or is not sugar-sweet helpful might be having a very, very bad day. We all have them and we all want those we come in contact with to just cut us a little slack.

I judge those obese families, too. And..then I think about how that reflects on my ethics. I am sorry for their illness and condition. Most people are doing the best they can do.

-Jeanne

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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