[split] Resurrection of Jesus - Argument with Ralph Ellis

[maklelan]

(24-06-2013 07:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  Er... wow I was gonna ask you a whole bunch of questions but... I decided I'll leave it for now...

It just seems really weird that's all...

Feel free to ask any questions you like.

[morondog]

OK. Um... Since I had had to ask you I didn't want to pry too deep - if you'd been preaching I would have been AOK to have a dig Anyway, since you said it's fine...

Knowing what you do about ancient Near East history and languages etc... don't you find that it clashes with your faith ? I don't really know much about Mormonism...

Joseph Smith read all this stuff in his hat ? Don't you think it's more likely that he was making it all up ?

I just... I found that immediately I started learning about and thinking about science related stuff the whole Christian thing started to seem hollow and false and eventually I decided that that was what it was. I know that other's do retain their faith, I have many friends who despite being well educated in science related fields nevertheless manage to still be Christian... I just don't understand *how* they manage it... which is why I'm asking you

[houseofcantor]

(24-06-2013 07:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  OK. Um... Since I had had to ask you I didn't want to pry too deep - if you'd been preaching I would have been AOK to have a dig Anyway, since you said it's fine...

Knowing what you do about ancient Near East history and languages etc... don't you find that it clashes with your faith ? I don't really know much about Mormonism...

Joseph Smith read all this stuff in his hat ? Don't you think it's more likely that he was making it all up ?

I just... I found that immediately I started learning about and thinking about science related stuff the whole Christian thing started to seem hollow and false and eventually I decided that that was what it was. I know that other's do retain their faith, I have many friends who despite being well educated in science related fields nevertheless manage to still be Christian... I just don't understand *how* they manage it... which is why I'm asking you

A moderator.

Willfully derailing this thread.

Where's that "what I don't like about this forum" thread?





Ain't a thread anyway. I used to like Ralph; now, not so much.

[morondog]

(24-06-2013 07:48 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  A moderator.

Willfully derailing this thread.

... Yeah... mods at TTA are pretty useless.

[houseofcantor]

(24-06-2013 07:51 AM)morondog Wrote:  

(24-06-2013 07:48 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  A moderator.

Willfully derailing this thread.

... Yeah... mods at TTA are pretty useless.

Hey! Derailing is utility. And Ralph should take a break from the spotlight; it ain't flattering.

[maklelan]

(24-06-2013 07:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  OK. Um... Since I had had to ask you I didn't want to pry too deep - if you'd been preaching I would have been AOK to have a dig Anyway, since you said it's fine...

Knowing what you do about ancient Near East history and languages etc... don't you find that it clashes with your faith ? I don't really know much about Mormonism...

There are things here and there that clash, but I don't base my faith on empiricism, and there are very few parts of it that are non-negotiable for me.

(24-06-2013 07:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  Joseph Smith read all this stuff in his hat ? Don't you think it's more likely that he was making it all up ?

There are too many parts of that conclusion that just don't make any sense to me, and I try not to pretend I can quantify the likelihood of supernatural events, provided I don't presuppose the non-existence of the supernatural.

(24-06-2013 07:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  I just... I found that immediately I started learning about and thinking about science related stuff the whole Christian thing started to seem hollow and false and eventually I decided that that was what it was. I know that other's do retain their faith, I have many friends who despite being well educated in science related fields nevertheless manage to still be Christian... I just don't understand *how* they manage it... which is why I'm asking you

I manage because it works. I'm more pragmatic than orthodoxic, and when I do what I believe my faith compels me to do, I see the results in my life that it promises will come. That's never failed me, no matter how many times ideologies and history may conflict with the tradition.

[Chas]

(24-06-2013 09:32 AM)maklelan Wrote:  

(24-06-2013 07:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  OK. Um... Since I had had to ask you I didn't want to pry too deep - if you'd been preaching I would have been AOK to have a dig Anyway, since you said it's fine...

Knowing what you do about ancient Near East history and languages etc... don't you find that it clashes with your faith ? I don't really know much about Mormonism...

There are things here and there that clash, but I don't base my faith on empiricism, and there are very few parts of it that are non-negotiable for me.

(24-06-2013 07:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  Joseph Smith read all this stuff in his hat ? Don't you think it's more likely that he was making it all up ?

There are too many parts of that conclusion that just don't make any sense to me, and I try not to pretend I can quantify the likelihood of supernatural events, provided I don't presuppose the non-existence of the supernatural.

(24-06-2013 07:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  I just... I found that immediately I started learning about and thinking about science related stuff the whole Christian thing started to seem hollow and false and eventually I decided that that was what it was. I know that other's do retain their faith, I have many friends who despite being well educated in science related fields nevertheless manage to still be Christian... I just don't understand *how* they manage it... which is why I'm asking you

I manage because it works. I'm more pragmatic than orthodoxic, and when I do what I believe my faith compels me to do, I see the results in my life that it promises will come. That's never failed me, no matter how many times ideologies and history may conflict with the tradition.

But doesn't it bother you that you believe whacked-out, crazy shit?

It makes me distrust your thinking.

[morondog]

(24-06-2013 09:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  But doesn't it bother you that you believe whacked-out, crazy shit?

It makes me distrust your thinking.

This is the interesting bit. One man's whacked out crazy is another man's bread and butter "but of course it's like that"...

It makes me distrust M's thinking, but also... mine... a little bit. Not as much as it used to...

And then I think to myself, is it just that his thinking is so alien, that I think that it's obviously wrong ?

And *then* I think to myself... God talked to Joseph Smith through his hat

[houseofcantor]

(24-06-2013 10:02 AM)morondog Wrote:  

(24-06-2013 09:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  But doesn't it bother you that you believe whacked-out, crazy shit?

It makes me distrust your thinking.

This is the interesting bit. One man's whacked out crazy is another man's bread and butter "but of course it's like that"...

It makes me distrust M's thinking, but also... mine... a little bit. Not as much as it used to...

And then I think to myself, is it just that his thinking is so alien, that I think that it's obviously wrong ?

And *then* I think to myself... God talked to Joseph Smith through his hat

God talks to me through Gwyneth Paltrow's eyes all the time, so there!

(But then again, if there ain't a pic in the dictionary of me next to "whacked out crazy shit," someone ain't doing their job. )

Besides, you two... Dan came here as a scholar to rebut Ralph, not as a Mormon to preach the gospel. Maybe you cats could ease off the throttle.

[maklelan]

(24-06-2013 09:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  But doesn't it bother you that you believe whacked-out, crazy shit?

It makes me distrust your thinking.

Why would it make you distrust my thinking?

There's whack-out and crazy shit happening all over the universe, and much of it we can't explain. I'm not worried about my beliefs conflicting with anyone's worldview or concept of the universe. The only reason your trust of my thinking might at all be relevant to my participation here is if it causes you to object to some argument I might produce, and if your objection comes down to nothing more than "you believe crazy shit," then the problem obviously does not lie with my argument.