[split] Share your de-conversion story
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25-11-2014, 12:11 PM
RE: Share your de-conversion story
(24-11-2014 09:15 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I’m a humble little theist

I don’t have much time to help you, but I will hit a few points for you..I will post some of your….assertions, and my responses in bold.


3. I found it took an incredible amount of faith to believe in atheistic origins of the universe and first life on earth (which even Evolutionists validated) .

As I have pointed out before, atheism doesn’t require faith. Faith is the belief in something without evidence. Faith IS the delusion, belief without evidence. Faith is pretending to know things that you don't know. To say "I have faith in god" means "I pretend to know things I don't know about god"....THINK about it, you dont know, you HOPE. Faith is an epistemology. It's a method and process people use to understand reality. Faith is a failed epistemology. Showing why faith fails has been done before and done well. (Bering 2011, Harris 2004, Loftus 2010, 2013, McCormick 2012, Schick & Vaughn 2008, Shermer 1997, 2011, Smith 1979, Stenger & Barker 2012, Torres 2012, Wade 2009 etc).

If a belief is based on insufficient evidence, than any further conclusion drawn from the belief will at best be of questionable value. It is impossible to figure out which of these claims is incorrect if the tool one uses is faith. As a tool, as an epistemology, as a method of reasoning, as a process for knowing the world, faith cannot adjudicate between competing claims. The ONLY way to figure out which claims about the world are likely true, and which are likely false, is through reason and evidence. There is no other way.


5. I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+ razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we. I could accept a few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent on each other and all which must work in unison to accomplish the goal of Earth being here so we can have an incredibly suitable home.

Wow…hey you know what the odds are at the very minimum that a planet would and could support life? Apparently about 1 in 300 billion. Hubble telescope can identify hundreds of billions of planets, odd that the mythical creator had to create hundreds of billions of planets to get one just right, with light and heat source that we call the sun…which incidentally is another poor design as it radiates us with cancer causing rays.

6. I discovered in myself that I wanted to follow the truth regardless of where it led, instead of patronizing myself into following something I had no more confidence in ; I was even willing to forfeit my will, pride,ego, and arrogance making ME my own 'god' for the sake of the real truth.

You were on the path to the truth when you claim you used ot be an atheist. Now you are on the path to delusion. Xtianity is the epitome of the three Fs, Fiction, Forgery, and Fantasy.

7. I heavily investigated Theism from a scientific standpoint including the remarkable design and engineering of things ...and concluded that it is absurd to think it all just happened by chance without a shred of purpose or reason.

It is absurd to think that an invisible super genie created the world, then blew into a handful of dirt and created man. That is absurd. It is absurd to think that if we are creations as we are today, then why do we have vestigial organs and bone formations within our bodies that are traceable evolutionary parts back to our fish like forefathers? Why create us with these odd bits…..this perfect god that man created?

8. I heavily investigated Christianity as well as all other major world religions, and discovered the New Testament of the Bible to offer more accurate historical evidences for Christ , his ressurection, and what he claimed about himself....that it was very compelling. I read about THE worlds most famous expert on Court of Law evidential techniques who put the New Testament to a very stringent test, who traded in his agnosticism to become a Christ Follower based purely on the scientific and historical evidences ...and I found this very compelling.

You failed in your investigation. As a educated in xtian mythology person, I have been studying and dismantling this myth for about 30 years now. If you had “heavily investigated” christianity, then you would be aware of the plethora of pseudepigrapha, interpolations, parables and allegorical writings that permeate the bible, as well as the fact that NO ONE who writes of jesus, ever knew him…no one. Fact. One I can substantiate at great length.

9. I discovered that modern scientific discoveries are proving the Bible correct and are leading to a personal theistic Creator which the Bible describes in great detail and is making an atheistic worldview an utter man-made fallacy ; a charade I just couldn't play any longer .

NO sorry, the global flood never happened, I specialize on the flood, and rather than deluge you with facts, I will simply point at Greenland. The great flood occurred 2349 BCE IAW the bible, and if it had happened, Greenland would have been destroyed, Greenland you see is made up of ice, and would have melted, broken off and slipped under the surface turning slowly into water. Weather conditions have not existed in the last 10k years to support the creation or re-creation of Greenland. The Exodus, never happened, the earth going dark when jesus allegedly was executed, never happened…the zombie invasion never happened…here let me spell that out for you..

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

Luke 23:44-48 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

Unfortunately for believers, there is not one shred of evidence that this happened...zero, all of the royal scribes, historians, philosophers, and literate people who wrote down and recorded EVERYTHING of any significance, failed to note the whole earth going dark mid-day for three hours...an eclipse lasts about 7.5 min max, so it wasn’t that, and there were two renowned historians who recorded each and every eclipse, as well as any other astronomical oddity....nothing, .....zero. Never happened.

Matthew 27:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Again, all the civilizations in the world that existed at the time, oddly, no one thought the world going dark was worthy of recording, not the Chinese, not the Eygptians…which by the way, were not wiped out by the mythical flood, nor did they even record an unusual amount of rainfall that year….

I will continue your schooling later.

Im already schooled ; I believe what prominent atheist Evolutionists teach us on the subject of the atheistic worldview of Materialism and Naturalism being based on FAITH and for the expressed motive as highlighted in the final sentence :

Professor Richard Lewontin, a geneticist (and self-proclaimed Marxist), is certainly one of the world’s leaders in evolutionary biology. He wrote this very revealing comment (the italics were in the original). It illustrates the implicit philosophical bias against purposed Creation—

"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism.
It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door"
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25-11-2014, 12:20 PM
RE: Share your de-conversion story
(25-11-2014 02:23 AM)morondog Wrote:  Mods, possible to split humble Dave's bullshit & associated responses out? They don't really fit with the thread IMO...

Agreed.

Humble Dave,

I just want to point something out....although this is an atheist forum, we welcome everyone. But remember you are a guest here. If you shit on the rug, I will show you the door sooner than you can say Rug Doctor. Savvy?

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25-11-2014, 12:40 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2014 12:46 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Share your de-conversion story
(25-11-2014 12:11 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  Im already schooled ; I believe what prominent atheist Evolutionists teach us on the subject of the atheistic worldview of Materialism and Naturalism being based on FAITH and for the expressed motive as highlighted in the final sentence :

Professor Richard Lewontin, a geneticist (and self-proclaimed Marxist), is certainly one of the world’s leaders in evolutionary biology. He wrote this very revealing comment (the italics were in the original). It illustrates the implicit philosophical bias against purposed Creation—

"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism.
It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door"

You are disingenuous Dave. I see your many years of cherry-picking the Bibble has not been wasted. Rolleyes

Original Quote

"With great perception, Sagan sees that there is an impediment to the popular credibility of scientific claims about the world, an impediment that is almost invisible to most scientists. Many of the most fundamental claims of science are against common sense and seem absurd on their face. Do physicists really expect me to accept without serious qualms that the pungent cheese that I had for lunch is really made up of tiny, tasteless, odorless, colorless packets of energy with nothing but empty space between them? Astronomers tell us without apparent embarrassment that they can see stellar events that occurred millions of years ago, whereas we all know that we see things as they happen. When, at the time of the moon landing, a woman in rural Texas was interviewed about the event, she very sensibly refused to believe that the television pictures she had seen had come all the way from the moon, on the grounds that with her antenna she couldn't even get Dallas. What seems absurd depends on one's prejudice. Carl Sagan accepts, as I do, the duality of light, which is at the same time wave and particle, but he thinks that the consubstantiality of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost puts the mystery of the Holy Trinity "in deep trouble." Two’s company, but three's a crowd.

Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.

The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen.”

Comment

Answers in Genesis makes it appear as if by "patent absurdity", Lewontin means evolution, when he is really talking about astronomy.
Gitt makes it appear as if Lewontin thinks that materialism cannot be justified and is a personal decision. But in reality Lewontin gives a reason just after creationists stop quoting him.
Also, many scientists will disagree with him in the detail creationists are emphasizing, and say that methodological naturalism is a necessary component of science, giving exactly the reason Lewontin gave.

http://evolutionwiki.org/wiki/Lewontin_on_materialism

You may also want to check this page full of creationists misquotes Dave just in case you were planning on using any of them. You may be able to fool yourself and your sheeple easily but we here actually think our way through life. Try being original next time.

http://evolutionwiki.org/wiki/Category:C..._misquotes

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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25-11-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: Share your de-conversion story
(25-11-2014 12:20 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 02:23 AM)morondog Wrote:  Mods, possible to split humble Dave's bullshit & associated responses out? They don't really fit with the thread IMO...

Agreed.

Humble Dave,

I just want to point something out....although this is an atheist forum, we welcome everyone. But remember you are a guest here. If you shit on the rug, I will show you the door sooner than you can say Rug Doctor. Savvy?

Could you be so kind as to give me some specific examples of 'defecating on the rug'...so I can take some precautions to make it to the bathroom in time ? Thanks.
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25-11-2014, 01:40 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2014 01:46 PM by kim.)
RE: Share your de-conversion story
Well Dave, a thread titled "Share your de-conversion story" might be a clue... you may want to brush up on your reading comprehension. You might also try to stop telling people what they are about and what to do, unless and until you become better acquainted with them ... and then only if they ask for advice. Common courtesy, really.

Have a nice day. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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25-11-2014, 01:42 PM
RE: Share your de-conversion story
(25-11-2014 01:17 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 12:20 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Agreed.

Humble Dave,

I just want to point something out....although this is an atheist forum, we welcome everyone. But remember you are a guest here. If you shit on the rug, I will show you the door sooner than you can say Rug Doctor. Savvy?

Could you be so kind as to give me some specific examples of 'defecating on the rug'...so I can take some precautions to make it to the bathroom in time ? Thanks.

Nope. Got no time to waste spoon feeding you. You've got a whole list of commandments (ten or eleven I think), so I can understand your apprehension. But I'm a whole lot easier to understand. I only have one commandment.

1) Don't be a dick.

Course there's a lot of forgiveness that goes with such simple rules, but around here forgiveness, like respect, is earned.

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25-11-2014, 02:10 PM
RE: Share your de-conversion story
(25-11-2014 01:40 PM)kim Wrote:  Well Dave, a thread titled "Share your de-conversion story" might be a clue... you may want to brush up on your reading comprehension. You might also try to stop telling people what they are about and what to do, unless and until you become better acquainted with them ... and then only if they ask for advice. Common courtesy, really.

Have a nice day. Drinking Beverage

Hi Kim, I know the lifestyles of professed Atheists because our Culture, Mass Media, and all our societal ills are derived from the official affirmations and actual ideologies of atheistic Secular Humanism (ie Man being his own authority) . Further, I know because I used to be a professed Atheist of 10 adult years living out the life of moral relativism --- the main tenet of social Humanism . Additionally, unbiased scientific studies polling Atheists themselves as well as the general populace , have conclusively shown that Atheists are lower in morality and in fact the least trusted in society. (Studies available upon request) . Now please....I am only the Messenger on these sorts of things and the evidence is available to all who wish to go looking for it. Id be pleased to point you in the right direction, but don't hold ME personally accountable as so many in here like to do.

Generally, i always have a nice day...but from time to time i desire just an ordinary day. Regards.
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25-11-2014, 02:11 PM
RE: Share your de-conversion story
(25-11-2014 01:17 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 12:20 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Agreed.

Humble Dave,

I just want to point something out....although this is an atheist forum, we welcome everyone. But remember you are a guest here. If you shit on the rug, I will show you the door sooner than you can say Rug Doctor. Savvy?

Could you be so kind as to give me some specific examples of 'defecating on the rug'...so I can take some precautions to make it to the bathroom in time ? Thanks.

Don’t be a dick like Stark just said.

Being a dick takes on many forms. For instance cherry picking quotes and passages from books to mislead is being a dick. Not addressing questions and spamming the forum with accusations or generalizations I think is being a dick. So imho you seem to be making great headway into dickdom.

So my question to you is were you being dishonest with a partial quote of Professor Richard Lewontin or are you just ignorant and didn’t understand what was being discussed?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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27-11-2014, 11:09 PM
RE: [split] Share your de-conversion story
(25-11-2014 02:23 AM)morondog Wrote:  Mods, possible to split humble Dave's bullshit & associated responses out? They don't really fit with the thread IMO...
Done. Smartass

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27-11-2014, 11:21 PM
RE: [split] Share your de-conversion story
(27-11-2014 11:09 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 02:23 AM)morondog Wrote:  Mods, possible to split humble Dave's bullshit & associated responses out? They don't really fit with the thread IMO...
Done. Smartass

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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