[split] Thoughts on the subject of transgender by Caveman
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18-07-2013, 02:24 PM
RE: [split] Thoughts on the subject of transgender by Caveman
(16-07-2013 03:07 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-07-2013 12:27 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote:  O'K. Sorry, but I have to fall into the caveman category here. If you are a guy, you are a guy. You may wish you weren't, but you are! You can NEVER be a girl! Same for you girls who want to be guys. You can mutilate yourself. Now you're a guy with no weenie! You'll never have your first period. You'll never have a child. Because you are a guy! Find a way to accept it! Don't mutilate yourself! You may damn well regret it! Buy the way: It's O.K. to be a guy! Hell! It's even O.K. to be a girl!

Sorry, but "transgendered" people are people with psychological issues that they need to address, before they mutilate themselves.


That's not true, hermaphrodites were traditionally "made female" because it was easiest to do. Many grew up completely confused as to their gender. They didn't "feel" like girls. Some were never even told.

Gender just isn't so simply defined as a penis or vajayjay.

Hermaphrodites are people with a physical deformity. Like Siamese twins. Confusion is to be expected. The fact that they are confused is not surprising! Doesn't tell us which gender they "should" have been. We shouldn't be surprised that doctors chose the simplest solution. Not a decision I would want to make! "Transgendered" people are not in that category. They have the equipment, but want to change it.

I would like to hear from people, or find a link to this subject, to find out if, statistically, it is a good idea. Because I can envision this as a very bad idea.

Again, this is not hate speech. But I don't want to say: " Hey, dude! I love you, go for it!" And it's the worst mistake of your life!
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18-07-2013, 02:50 PM
RE: [split] Thoughts on the subject of transgender by Caveman
Long-term follow-up of transsexual persons undergoing sex reassignment surgery: cohort study in Sweden.

Dhejne C, Lichtenstein P, Boman M, Johansson AL, Långström N, Landén M.


Source

Department of Clinical Neuroscience, Division of Psychiatry, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden.


Abstract


CONTEXT:

The treatment for transsexualism is sex reassignment, including hormonal treatment and surgery aimed at making the person's body as congruent with the opposite sex as possible. There is a dearth of long term, follow-up studies after sex reassignment.

OBJECTIVE:

To estimate mortality, morbidity, and criminal rate after surgical sex reassignment of transsexual persons.

DESIGN:

A population-based matched cohort study.

SETTING:

Sweden, 1973-2003.

PARTICIPANTS:

All 324 sex-reassigned persons (191 male-to-females, 133 female-to-males) in Sweden, 1973-2003. Random population controls (10:1) were matched by birth year and birth sex or reassigned (final) sex, respectively.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

Hazard ratios (HR) with 95% confidence intervals (CI) for mortality and psychiatric morbidity were obtained with Cox regression models, which were adjusted for immigrant status and psychiatric morbidity prior to sex reassignment (adjusted HR [aHR]).

RESULTS:

The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8-4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8-62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9-8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0-3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.

CONCLUSIONS:

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
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18-07-2013, 02:53 PM
RE: [split] Thoughts on the subject of transgender by Caveman
RESULTS:

The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8-4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8-62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9-8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0-3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.

CONCLUSIONS:

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.






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18-07-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: [split] Thoughts on the subject of transgender by Caveman
"Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, . .. "have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population!!!" . . . . Our findings suggest that . . . "sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group."



Told ya! We want to be nice folks, but lets not be nice to the point of a bullet ion the brain!
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18-07-2013, 03:04 PM
RE: [split] Thoughts on the subject of transgender by Caveman
(18-07-2013 02:53 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote:  RESULTS:

The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8-4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8-62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9-8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0-3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.

CONCLUSIONS:

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.






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Interesting, not really surprising. As I stated earlier it seems that a good portion of the transgender community have some major issues that this alone wont solve. For example one of our newer members here is M2F and has mentioned trouble with lesbians (something about her not being a real woman) I don't know how deep that problem is but isolation both pre and post-op seems to be an issue with some transgender people.

I wonder how much swing there is when compared to other high risk groups rather than the gen pop and what the numbers compare to pre-op vs post. In any case the findings here don't say don't do the surgery just that the surgery is not a cure-all. I would imagine that by the time one actually went through the entire gauntlet one would be pretty sure of the decision. It seems to be designed to weed out those that would have regrets.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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18-07-2013, 03:11 PM
RE: [split] Thoughts on the subject of transgender by Caveman
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity [diseased state] than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism. (Read the entire study here)
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18-07-2013, 03:12 PM
RE: [split] Thoughts on the subject of transgender by Caveman
(18-07-2013 03:04 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(18-07-2013 02:53 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote:  RESULTS:

The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8-4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8-62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9-8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0-3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.

CONCLUSIONS:

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.






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Interesting, not really surprising. As I stated earlier it seems that a good portion of the transgender community have some major issues that this alone wont solve. For example one of our newer members here is M2F and has mentioned trouble with lesbians (something about her not being a real woman) I don't know how deep that problem is but isolation both pre and post-op seems to be an issue with some transgender people.

I wonder how much swing there is when compared to other high risk groups rather than the gen pop and what the numbers compare to pre-op vs post. In any case the findings here don't say don't do the surgery just that the surgery is not a cure-all. I would imagine that by the time one actually went through the entire gauntlet one would be pretty sure of the decision. It seems to be designed to weed out those that would have regrets.

Excellent points.

It also doesn't say anything about the support system these people might have has in place post surgery. By support I don't simply mean "therapy" but family, friends coworkers etc.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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18-07-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: [split] Thoughts on the subject of transgender by Caveman
(18-07-2013 02:24 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote:  
(16-07-2013 03:07 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  That's not true, hermaphrodites were traditionally "made female" because it was easiest to do. Many grew up completely confused as to their gender. They didn't "feel" like girls. Some were never even told.

Gender just isn't so simply defined as a penis or vajayjay.

Hermaphrodites are people with a physical deformity. Like Siamese twins. Confusion is to be expected. The fact that they are confused is not surprising! Doesn't tell us which gender they "should" have been. We shouldn't be surprised that doctors chose the simplest solution. Not a decision I would want to make! "Transgendered" people are not in that category. They have the equipment, but want to change it.

I would like to hear from people, or find a link to this subject, to find out if, statistically, it is a good idea. Because I can envision this as a very bad idea.

Again, this is not hate speech. But I don't want to say: " Hey, dude! I love you, go for it!" And it's the worst mistake of your life!

Intersex is the correct term and you say it's a deformity as the male and female sexes were some sort of god send definition of normality and correctness.

Get it in you mind, intersex are just regular people with a different genetic expression than what society has deemed "normal". But if you were to honestly analyse the facts, you'll see that there's nothing detrimental in being intersex.

If they're confused, is because we assign so much power to the male/female binary conception of humanity that they obviously find themselves as weirded out, but that's our fault, we are the ones confusing them, not the other way around...



About that study you present. Correlation doesn't imply causation. When you study the usual place transexual people are forced to occupy in society (pariahs) it's of no surprise that they have higher suicide rates and other problems, but there's no proof that it is because they're transexual. Actually, I'd say it is because society hates and discriminates them rather than the other way around.

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18-07-2013, 03:19 PM
RE: [split] Thoughts on the subject of transgender by Caveman
"and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group"

Let me explain this to you, stars and all! It means: "We fucked up! "Our psychiatric and somatic care" was wrong. Now let us try again!

Somatic: of, relating to, or affecting the body especially as distinguished from the germplasm or the psyche.

So, we are taking a physical approach to a psychological problem. Which could result in suicide

Don't tell your friend this is O.K. Or you may attend their funeral.
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18-07-2013, 03:23 PM
RE: [split] Thoughts on the subject of transgender by Caveman
(18-07-2013 03:19 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote:  "and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group"

Let me explain this to you, stars and all! It means: "We fucked up! "Our psychiatric and somatic care" was wrong. Now let us try again!

Somatic: of, relating to, or affecting the body especially as distinguished from the germplasm or the psyche.

So, we are taking a physical approach to a psychological problem. Which could result in suicide

Don't tell your friend this is O.K. Or you may attend their funeral.

Umm no, you seem to be trying to make the results fit your preconceived outcome not what it actually says.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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