[split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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04-01-2016, 01:50 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(04-01-2016 01:38 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  OK. I get that. But what if all the evidence was destroyed either intentionally or unintentionally over the last 2000 years? 2000 years from now will people look at the holocaust as just another "fairy tail" like Jesus and Moses?

If all evidence was destroyed then it would be rational for people 2000 years from now to not accept the holocaust as fact. It would probably be rational to accept that it may have occurred just like it is not unreasonable now to believe that there was some actual preacher on whom the xian stories were loosely based. The main difference is that to accept that the holocaust possibly happened without direct evidence you don't have to accept anything miraculous.

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04-01-2016, 01:54 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(04-01-2016 01:50 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 01:38 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  OK. I get that. But what if all the evidence was destroyed either intentionally or unintentionally over the last 2000 years? 2000 years from now will people look at the holocaust as just another "fairy tail" like Jesus and Moses?

If all evidence was destroyed then it would be rational for people 2000 years from now to not accept the holocaust as fact. It would probably be rational to accept that it may have occurred just like it is not unreasonable now to believe that there was some actual preacher on whom the xian stories were loosely based. The main difference is that to accept that the holocaust possibly happened without direct evidence you don't have to accept anything miraculous.
Gotcha. I was just curious. But I digress.
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04-01-2016, 02:02 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2016 02:14 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(04-01-2016 01:38 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 01:34 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Well, maybe it's because there are mountains of evidence for the Holocaust, and none at all for what is asserted either in the canonical gospels, or the extra-canonical gospels. Although I find the Gospel of Thomas amusing, and rather similar to Paul's comment : Gospel of Thomas (114) "Simon Peter said to them: Let Mariham go out from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Look, I will lead her that I may make her male, in order that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter into the kingdom of heaven." - Gal. 3:26-28: "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you were baptized into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Jesus Christ."

Tongue
OK. I get that. But what if all the evidence was destroyed either intentionally or unintentionally over the last 2000 years? 2000 years from now will people look at the holocaust as just another "fairy tail" like Jesus and Moses?

I also think the "long view" will be interesting. But instead, how about 10,000 years or 100,000 years, or when humans (assuming they don't destroy their specie) leave this planet. Will they look back at the myth systems they made and still find them meaningful ? I doubt it. The evidence for the Holocaust is pretty securely documented and scattered around and copied and referenced. It would be hard to cover up. Since Jewish archaeologists can't find any evidence that Moses existed, and we know he comes from the pre-historic myth system of the old Northern Kingdom (which is why the Judean priests included him and his stories when they assembled the Bible during the Exile), and then as recounted in Ezra and Nehemiah, presented the newly created "Torah of Moses" to the people of Israel in the Fall Festival, (the year is in dispute), when Judaism was really formed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra
There are all sorts of probematic things with Jesus of Nazareth being an "historical figure" and no undisputed evidence at all for him. So it appears the historicity of Moses, Jesus, and the holocaust, are not all that similar, in my view.

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04-01-2016, 02:05 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
I could have sworn we already played this game with a certain cold wise man back in early 2012. Consider

Does anyone else still remember this gem from Filox? Laugh out load

Filox Wrote:  Hey you know what I just realized? There might actually be some truth in all this. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense, when Hitler wanted to "solve the Jewish problem", he wasn't thinking about killing/deporting them, he was talking abut delousing them, because they were spreading lice around, to all those non-liced Germans. Since they were "pure and superior race", they could not afford to have lice, so they needed to solve the problem. The easiest way was to push them (Jews) all in big showers and delouse them all at once. Unfortunately, the Americans and British have attacked the nice Germans, so they didn't have enough resources and food to feed al those Jews that they were just trying to clean, so the Jews got sick with Typhus and they started to starve.

So, all Germany wanted to do is clean all those filthy Jews, but the USA and GB have made it economically impossible, so now we all think they killed and starved Jews in camps on purpose. Also, Russians and Americans have removed all the fun stuff from the camps as soon as they arrived, because they had a secret agenda with those camps, so they turned nice playgrounds into killer camps with poisonous gas chambers.

You know what, all the people on TTA are completely retarded, you are all idiots and I am leaving this forum, I will never come back. How can you not see this truth, how can you call yourselves "thinkers" when all you do is close your eyes, ears and mouth!

I am very, very disappointed.

Long live the pure and righteous Arian race and may they clean the world of all lice!

Hail lice-cleaning Hitler!

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04-01-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(04-01-2016 02:05 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I could have sworn we already played this game with a certain cold wise man back in early 2012. Consider

Does anyone else still remember this gem from Filox? Laugh out load

Filox Wrote:  Hey you know what I just realized? There might actually be some truth in all this. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense, when Hitler wanted to "solve the Jewish problem", he wasn't thinking about killing/deporting them, he was talking abut delousing them, because they were spreading lice around, to all those non-liced Germans. Since they were "pure and superior race", they could not afford to have lice, so they needed to solve the problem. The easiest way was to push them (Jews) all in big showers and delouse them all at once. Unfortunately, the Americans and British have attacked the nice Germans, so they didn't have enough resources and food to feed al those Jews that they were just trying to clean, so the Jews got sick with Typhus and they started to starve.

So, all Germany wanted to do is clean all those filthy Jews, but the USA and GB have made it economically impossible, so now we all think they killed and starved Jews in camps on purpose. Also, Russians and Americans have removed all the fun stuff from the camps as soon as they arrived, because they had a secret agenda with those camps, so they turned nice playgrounds into killer camps with poisonous gas chambers.

You know what, all the people on TTA are completely retarded, you are all idiots and I am leaving this forum, I will never come back. How can you not see this truth, how can you call yourselves "thinkers" when all you do is close your eyes, ears and mouth!

I am very, very disappointed.

Long live the pure and righteous Arian race and may they clean the world of all lice!

Hail lice-cleaning Hitler!
Checking it out now so I don't waste anyone's time. Thanks.

Edit: wow! That is not at all what I was expecting. Confused
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04-01-2016, 02:19 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(04-01-2016 01:08 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Why is this becoming a thing?
For the same reason billions of people around the world believe in global floods, talking snakes, and imaginary friends in the sky, homeopathy, star signs, prophecy, and lots of other silly stuff : poor education and a species wide tendency towards gullibility.
While the primary fault is poor education (many countries don't teach about the Holocaust at all or in extremely watered down ways at best) one of the other problems is about 2000 years of institutionalized bigotry against Jews by primarily Christians, though others as well, at nearly every level makes it kinda hard. When your culture has vilified and treated as sub-human an entire group of people for nearly two millennia it's hard to teach people to feel bad for them.
Hell just look at how fine most Americans are with drone strikes in Pakistan that kill radically more innocent civilians then legitimate military targets. That's just after little more then a decade of cultural, and racial, hostility and that's with near universal literacy and access to the internet.

(04-01-2016 01:14 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I am very hesitant to say this but I can't help but wonder if what is happing to the holocaust is the very same thing that happened to the gospels.
It's not, though to be fair I can see how such a conspiracy theory would be attractive to a believer of a faith that's had 2000 years to prove an iota of it's claims and has repeatedly failed to do that.

(04-01-2016 01:38 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  OK. I get that. But what if all the evidence was destroyed either intentionally or unintentionally over the last 2000 years? 2000 years from now will people look at the holocaust as just another "fairy tail" like Jesus and Moses?
Not really the same as the chief problem with the gospels is not that they have utterly no evidence to support their assertions (though that is true) but that there is a fairly substantial collection of evidence that they are not true which are two different things obviously. No one is going to unearth evidence 2000 years from now that Hitler or Germany didn't exist which is exactly what the case has been for Moses in the last few decades and is starting to look like for Jesus as well. We know Moses never existed now. There is also the fact that unlike the existence of Jesus, the story of Heinrich Himmlers' life doesn't require the suspension or outright removal of the laws of physics.

My point being that they are really not the same at all.

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04-01-2016, 02:20 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(04-01-2016 01:54 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 01:50 PM)unfogged Wrote:  If all evidence was destroyed then it would be rational for people 2000 years from now to not accept the holocaust as fact. It would probably be rational to accept that it may have occurred just like it is not unreasonable now to believe that there was some actual preacher on whom the xian stories were loosely based. The main difference is that to accept that the holocaust possibly happened without direct evidence you don't have to accept anything miraculous.
Gotcha. I was just curious. But I digress.
Curiosity is good, always follow it. It's my second favorite quality in people. Thumbsup

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04-01-2016, 02:22 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(04-01-2016 02:19 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 01:08 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Why is this becoming a thing?
For the same reason billions of people around the world believe in global floods, talking snakes, and imaginary friends in the sky, homeopathy, star signs, prophecy, and lots of other silly stuff : poor education and a species wide tendency towards gullibility.
While the primary fault is poor education (many countries don't teach about the Holocaust at all or in extremely watered down ways at best) one of the other problems is about 2000 years of institutionalized bigotry against Jews by primarily Christians, though others as well, at nearly every level makes it kinda hard. When your culture has vilified and treated as sub-human an entire group of people for nearly two millennia it's hard to teach people to feel bad for them.
Hell just look at how fine most Americans are with drone strikes in Pakistan that kill radically more innocent civilians then legitimate military targets. That's just after little more then a decade of cultural, and racial, hostility and that's with near universal literacy and access to the internet.

(04-01-2016 01:14 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I am very hesitant to say this but I can't help but wonder if what is happing to the holocaust is the very same thing that happened to the gospels.
It's not, though to be fair I can see how such a conspiracy theory would be attractive to a believer of a faith that's had 2000 years to prove an iota of it's claims and has repeatedly failed to do that.

(04-01-2016 01:38 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  OK. I get that. But what if all the evidence was destroyed either intentionally or unintentionally over the last 2000 years? 2000 years from now will people look at the holocaust as just another "fairy tail" like Jesus and Moses?
Not really the same as the chief problem with the gospels is not that they have utterly no evidence to support their assertions (though that is true) but that there is a fairly substantial collection of evidence that they are not true which are two different things obviously. No one is going to unearth evidence 2000 years from now that Hitler or Germany didn't exist which is exactly what the case has been for Moses in the last few decades and is starting to look like for Jesus as well. We know Moses never existed now. There is also the fact that unlike the existence of Jesus, the story of Heinrich Himmlers' life doesn't require the suspension or outright removal of the laws of physics.

My point being that they are really not the same at all.
Gotcha...and back to the nazis.
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04-01-2016, 03:03 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(04-01-2016 02:20 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 01:54 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Gotcha. I was just curious. But I digress.
Curiosity is good, always follow it. It's my second favorite quality in people. Thumbsup
Out of curiosity Shy what is your first favorite quality?
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04-01-2016, 04:23 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(04-01-2016 02:19 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  For the same reason billions of people around the world believe in global floods, talking snakes, and imaginary friends in the sky, homeopathy, star signs, prophecy, and lots of other silly stuff : poor education and a species wide tendency towards gullibility.

More than the "tool using monkey" we are the "pattern seeking monkey". Thumbsup

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