[split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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03-01-2016, 06:04 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 04:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-01-2016 04:29 PM)malklammalklam Wrote:  How about when you can learn second language to back up ur school system bullshit program ur mind can not reach to this level of knowledge. Need some reference and citation. Ok i will be back whenever i finish second grade can you read this على ذكري المقدس

On the anniversary of the Holy.

Big Grin

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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03-01-2016, 06:33 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(02-01-2016 06:30 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(02-01-2016 04:56 PM)Berty Wrote:  It is natural that an atheist would not have faith in the holocaust story.

False. What is *natural* is that skeptics look for evidence. In this case, there are mountains of evidence. http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?...d=10007271

(02-01-2016 04:56 PM)Berty Wrote:  We are told that Six Million Jews were murdered by evil Nazis, however, we are not given any credible evidence to support this claim.

Unfortunately for you, we have more than enough evidence, and you are a fool.

Have you taken a hard look at the "evidence"? It's very easy to take a photo of dead bodies and then point the finger and say, "those people did it".
As many as 14,000 people died at the Bergen-Belsen camp AFTER it was liberated by the British. Many died of starvation and Typhus. Millions of Germans died of starvation as a result of of the war and especially Allied bombings which destroyed infrastructure and killed civilians en masse. Many people also died of Typhus (AKA Jail Fever). This disease is almost non-existent today thanks to modern medicine and hygiene, but it was very prevalent at the time, and especially in the camps. In fact, Anne Frank died of Typhus. Is this horribly tragic? Absolutely! But does this mean that there was a deliberate campaign of genocide? No! That is jumping to conclusions....but actually, you aren't jumping to conclusions. You are just letting someone else tell you what to think about what someone else did.

I believe this image is from Bergen-Belsen

[Image: Typhus.jpg]
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03-01-2016, 06:38 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 06:33 PM)Berty Wrote:  
(02-01-2016 06:30 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  False. What is *natural* is that skeptics look for evidence. In this case, there are mountains of evidence. http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?...d=10007271


Unfortunately for you, we have more than enough evidence, and you are a fool.

Have you taken a hard look at the "evidence"? It's very easy to take a photo of dead bodies and then point the finger and say, "those people did it".
As many as 14,000 people died at the Bergen-Belsen camp AFTER it was liberated by the British. Many died of starvation and Typhus. Millions of Germans died of starvation as a result of of the war and especially Allied bombings which destroyed infrastructure and killed civilians en masse. Many people also died of Typhus (AKA Jail Fever). This disease is almost non-existent today thanks to modern medicine and hygiene, but it was very prevalent at the time, and especially in the camps. In fact, Anne Frank died of Typhus. Is this horribly tragic? Absolutely! But does this mean that there was a deliberate campaign of genocide? No! That is jumping to conclusions....but actually, you aren't jumping to conclusions. You are just letting someone else tell you what to think about what someone else did.

I believe this image is from Bergen-Belsen

[Image: Typhus.jpg]

Is your thinking so warped that you can't understand that the deaths by starvation or typhus are just as much the fault of the Nazis as those caused by gunshot or gas?
The Nazis rounded up people and put them into those camps and subjected them to those conditions. They are responsible for all those deaths.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-01-2016, 06:42 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 06:33 PM)Berty Wrote:  You are just letting someone else tell you what to think about what someone else did.

You mean instead of counting bodies myself? Of course I'm going to listen to historians. Hell even the German government admits the extent of the Holocaust. Who else I'm gonna listen to? You?

#sigh
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03-01-2016, 06:46 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(02-01-2016 06:21 PM)julep Wrote:  No, it wasn't. Taking a few history courses that cover methods of research will help. Looking on the interwebz for "studies" that support a racist history revision won't. The first option requires actual brain work, so I hope you'll chose it.

I am not racist or anti-semitic. This doesn't come from that frame of mind. Like you, I am educated and very familiar with the popular narratives for WW2 and the Holocaust. But when WW2 documentaries have titles like "Evolution of Evil", my BS sensor goes off. No one is really evil. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, "Now back to my diabolical plan". There has never been in the history of the planet a war that was really a battle between Good and Evil. That is fantasy. I decided to review WW2 history as an adult, looking for first-hand accounts, old newspaper articles, recordings of speeches, etc. I weeded through all the racist nonsense. I analysed evidence and accounts critically. And I listened to ALL sides of the debate. Have you done the same? Are you sure your point of view isn't one-sided?
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03-01-2016, 06:54 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 06:46 PM)Berty Wrote:  And I listened to ALL sides of the debate. Have you done the same? Are you sure your point of view isn't one-sided?

I've spent days at the Holocaust Museum. My point of view is framed by the experts who have studied the Holocaust so much that there is a fucking museum dedicated to it. You?

#sigh
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03-01-2016, 06:58 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 06:33 PM)Berty Wrote:  
(02-01-2016 06:30 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  False. What is *natural* is that skeptics look for evidence. In this case, there are mountains of evidence. http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?...d=10007271


Unfortunately for you, we have more than enough evidence, and you are a fool.

Have you taken a hard look at the "evidence"? It's very easy to take a photo of dead bodies and then point the finger and say, "those people did it".
As many as 14,000 people died at the Bergen-Belsen camp AFTER it was liberated by the British. Many died of starvation and Typhus. Millions of Germans died of starvation as a result of of the war and especially Allied bombings which destroyed infrastructure and killed civilians en masse. Many people also died of Typhus (AKA Jail Fever). This disease is almost non-existent today thanks to modern medicine and hygiene, but it was very prevalent at the time, and especially in the camps. In fact, Anne Frank died of Typhus. Is this horribly tragic? Absolutely! But does this mean that there was a deliberate campaign of genocide? No! That is jumping to conclusions....but actually, you aren't jumping to conclusions. You are just letting someone else tell you what to think about what someone else did.

I believe this image is from Bergen-Belsen

[Image: Typhus.jpg]
Of course they would have their sign in English instead of something that could be read by the Germans!
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03-01-2016, 07:06 PM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2016 07:09 PM by Berty.)
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 06:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-01-2016 06:33 PM)Berty Wrote:  Have you taken a hard look at the "evidence"? It's very easy to take a photo of dead bodies and then point the finger and say, "those people did it".
As many as 14,000 people died at the Bergen-Belsen camp AFTER it was liberated by the British. Many died of starvation and Typhus. Millions of Germans died of starvation as a result of of the war and especially Allied bombings which destroyed infrastructure and killed civilians en masse. Many people also died of Typhus (AKA Jail Fever). This disease is almost non-existent today thanks to modern medicine and hygiene, but it was very prevalent at the time, and especially in the camps. In fact, Anne Frank died of Typhus. Is this horribly tragic? Absolutely! But does this mean that there was a deliberate campaign of genocide? No! That is jumping to conclusions....but actually, you aren't jumping to conclusions. You are just letting someone else tell you what to think about what someone else did.

I believe this image is from Bergen-Belsen

[Image: Typhus.jpg]

Is your thinking so warped that you can't understand that the deaths by starvation or typhus are just as much the fault of the Nazis as those caused by gunshot or gas?
The Nazis rounded up people and put them into those camps and subjected them to those conditions. They are responsible for all those deaths.

1) What method was employed to determine that 6 million Jews died?

2) I agree with you that the Nazis were in part responsible for the deaths at the camps, but I think it's unfair to place all the blame for the war and it's subsequent casualties on the Nazis. After all, It was France and Great Britain that declared war on Germany. And France invaded Germany first.

[Image: germany-and-france-formal-declaration-of-war.jpg]

Also, I don't think you should subscribe to such a one-sided point-of-view with regards to Nazi aggression; not even with Jewish people. Like it or not, the evidence tells us that this conflict was much more complicated than it is portrayed.

[Image: 1399557888881.png]

Notice that the date of the last article is years before WW2 and years before the famous Kristallnacht.
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03-01-2016, 07:10 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 06:54 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-01-2016 06:46 PM)Berty Wrote:  And I listened to ALL sides of the debate. Have you done the same? Are you sure your point of view isn't one-sided?

I've spent days at the Holocaust Museum. My point of view is framed by the experts who have studied the Holocaust so much that there is a fucking museum dedicated to it. You?

There is a Museum dedicated to Creationism too!
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03-01-2016, 07:14 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 06:46 PM)Berty Wrote:  
(02-01-2016 06:21 PM)julep Wrote:  No, it wasn't. Taking a few history courses that cover methods of research will help. Looking on the interwebz for "studies" that support a racist history revision won't. The first option requires actual brain work, so I hope you'll chose it.

I am not racist or anti-semitic. This doesn't come from that frame of mind. Like you, I am educated and very familiar with the popular narratives for WW2 and the Holocaust. But when WW2 documentaries have titles like "Evolution of Evil", my BS sensor goes off. No one is really evil. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, "Now back to my diabolical plan".

I'm pretty sure this guy did.

[Image: quote-the-best-political-weapon-is-the-w...-65-85.jpg]

Quote:There has never been in the history of the planet a war that was really a battle between Good and Evil. That is fantasy. I decided to review WW2 history as an adult, looking for first-hand accounts, old newspaper articles, recordings of speeches, etc. I weeded through all the racist nonsense. I analysed evidence and accounts critically. And I listened to ALL sides of the debate. Have you done the same? Are you sure your point of view isn't one-sided?

And what do you think is the real story? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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