[split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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03-01-2016, 09:58 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 07:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-01-2016 06:46 PM)Berty Wrote:  I am not racist or anti-semitic. This doesn't come from that frame of mind. Like you, I am educated and very familiar with the popular narratives for WW2 and the Holocaust. But when WW2 documentaries have titles like "Evolution of Evil", my BS sensor goes off. No one is really evil. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, "Now back to my diabolical plan".

I'm pretty sure this guy did.

[Image: quote-the-best-political-weapon-is-the-w...-65-85.jpg]

Quote:There has never been in the history of the planet a war that was really a battle between Good and Evil. That is fantasy. I decided to review WW2 history as an adult, looking for first-hand accounts, old newspaper articles, recordings of speeches, etc. I weeded through all the racist nonsense. I analysed evidence and accounts critically. And I listened to ALL sides of the debate. Have you done the same? Are you sure your point of view isn't one-sided?

And what do you think is the real story? Consider

That's a good quote! I'm looking into this guys views.

I don't yet know the real history of WW2. That's what I'm trying to determine. Look, I don't hold faith in high regard. I prefer knowledge. I've decided to look at this subject objectively, rather than just assume that the popular view is correct.

For example, at one point I questioned if Hitler was even anti-semitic. So I looked it up. I found a speech in which Hitler says the Nazis are "rationally anti-Semitic" and he even wrote another speech in 1920 titled "Why we are Antisemites". So, as someone who values the scientific method, I concluded that Hitler was in fact Anti-Semitic. That's from the horse's mouth. I accept that evidence over someone just saying he's this or that. However, I also know that many Jews living in Germany and even serving in the German military were not sent to internment camps.

http://www.rense.com/general43/jewserved.htm

Because of this, I can state that Hitler did not place all Jews in the Reich in internment camps.

Was Hitler a racist? I think he was based on his own writings and speeches. However, I feel that his attitudes and the attitudes of the Nazis in general towards race is a little more nuanced than people might expect. For example, Hitler states in The Political Testament of Adolph Hitler, "Pride in one's own race – and that does not imply contempt for other races – is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their past history is superior to our own. They have the right to be proud of their past, just as we have the right to be proud of the civilization to which we belong. Indeed, I believe the more steadfast the Chinese and the Japanese remain in their pride of race, the easier I shall find it to get on with them."

[Image: black-nazi2.jpg?w=268&h=420]

So, it seems that Hitler had it out for "the Jews" but not other races.

Where I am at now is trying to determine if Hitler and the Nazis planned on murdering all Jewish people in the camps or if they were just being detained until the end of the war like the Japanese in the US were. And also, if that was ever a plan; than was it ever carried out? OR did people in the concentration camps die as the result of war and not systematic genocide?
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03-01-2016, 10:00 PM
[split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
What would the motivation be for this mysterious group to force Germany, the USA, and other countries to falsify evidence to lie about the number of Jews who died?

Just a bit tired of hearing about Illuminati, Tri-Lateral Commission, etc.
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03-01-2016, 10:16 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 07:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-01-2016 07:14 PM)Berty Wrote:  I know you didn't count the bodies yourself. But, can you tell me who did? This 6 million figure is considered fact, but based on what evidence exactly?

The 6,000,000 is not considered a hard fact as there is some dispute over the numbers.
It is currently believed by historians that the number of Polish Jews may have been overestimated by as much as one million.

They are largely informed estimates based on pre-war vs. post-war populations, body counts, and so on.

And do you only have a problem with the number of Jews killed? What about the 5,000,000 non-Jews?

Can you show us this evidence please? Because I have found evidence to suggest otherwise from multiple sources. Below is a site with photos from the World Almanacs of 1933 and 1948 that put the population of Jews in Europe before and after WW2 at roughly the same.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=85432

I hate to come across as naive, but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for hard evidence when trying to determine if something is real or not.
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03-01-2016, 10:18 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 09:58 PM)Berty Wrote:  
(03-01-2016 07:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  I'm pretty sure this guy did.

[Image: quote-the-best-political-weapon-is-the-w...-65-85.jpg]


And what do you think is the real story? Consider

That's a good quote! I'm looking into this guys views.

I don't yet know the real history of WW2. That's what I'm trying to determine. Look, I don't hold faith in high regard. I prefer knowledge. I've decided to look at this subject objectively, rather than just assume that the popular view is correct.

For example, at one point I questioned if Hitler was even anti-semitic. So I looked it up. I found a speech in which Hitler says the Nazis are "rationally anti-Semitic" and he even wrote another speech in 1920 titled "Why we are Antisemites". So, as someone who values the scientific method, I concluded that Hitler was in fact Anti-Semitic. That's from the horse's mouth. I accept that evidence over someone just saying he's this or that. However, I also know that many Jews living in Germany and even serving in the German military were not sent to internment camps.

http://www.rense.com/general43/jewserved.htm

Because of this, I can state that Hitler did not place all Jews in the Reich in internment camps.

Was Hitler a racist? I think he was based on his own writings and speeches. However, I feel that his attitudes and the attitudes of the Nazis in general towards race is a little more nuanced than people might expect. For example, Hitler states in The Political Testament of Adolph Hitler, "Pride in one's own race – and that does not imply contempt for other races – is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their past history is superior to our own. They have the right to be proud of their past, just as we have the right to be proud of the civilization to which we belong. Indeed, I believe the more steadfast the Chinese and the Japanese remain in their pride of race, the easier I shall find it to get on with them."

[Image: black-nazi2.jpg?w=268&h=420]

So, it seems that Hitler had it out for "the Jews" but not other races.

Where I am at now is trying to determine if Hitler and the Nazis planned on murdering all Jewish people in the camps or if they were just being detained until the end of the war like the Japanese in the US were. And also, if that was ever a plan; than was it ever carried out? OR did people in the concentration camps die as the result of war and not systematic genocide?

So, you're not going to address the evidence presented to you ?
From what YOU posted :
"According to the Nuremberg Laws of 1935, Jews or those of partial Jewish descent were unfit for military service, but Rigg tracked down and interviewed more than 400 former soldiers of partial Jewish descent -- labelled "Mischlinge" ("half-caste") by the Nazis. He estimates there were about 60,000 soldiers with one Jewish parent and 90,000 with a Jewish grandparent in the Wehrmacht, the regular army as distinct from the Nazi SS. "They thought 'if I serve well they're not going to hurt me and not going to hurt my family'," he said.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-01-2016, 10:21 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(02-01-2016 04:56 PM)Berty Wrote:  It is natural that an atheist would not have faith in the holocaust story. We are told that Six Million Jews were murdered by evil Nazis, however, we are not given any credible evidence to support this claim. We are told that the six million bodies were never counted because they were "cremated". We are told to ignore the fact that there is no documentation to support this claim because the Nazis were "conspirators" and "criminals" and destroyed all the documentation. I looked for real-world numbers that support the six million number and I did not find them; not in census records, red cross records, and not even the Jewish almanac. I was lead on a wild goose chase. It did not occur to me at first that I was dealing with a myth. I did eventually find the six million number though in what looks like the world of fantasy being passed onto us as reality.

[Image: Six-Million-Jews-Chicago-Tribune-July-20-1921-300.gif]

[Image: url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&am...0702613004]

[Image: ff53e48454e9cc0e5c5f7797d2955141.jpg]
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03-01-2016, 10:26 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 10:00 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  What would the motivation be for this mysterious group to force Germany, the USA, and other countries to falsify evidence to lie about the number of Jews who died?

Just a bit tired of hearing about Illuminati, Tri-Lateral Commission, etc.

I am tired of half-baked conspiracy theories myself. In fact, that's why I don't watch the History Channel anymore! Ancient Aliens, Catching Bigfoot, The Real Face of Jesus and numerous documentaries about evil Nazis like "Evolution of Evil"....sounds like BS to me. Aren't you alarmed that they all on the same channel?
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03-01-2016, 10:28 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 01:36 PM)malklammalklam Wrote:  Man i feel sory for Hitler. He was good man fighting capitalism from its root. I feel sory for the naitive people of America before Columbus got lost. I feel sorry for human to live in digital slavery age. But I hope that the Hollycoused was real coz they deserve it these betrayers. Land rapers. Cuz they don't belongs to any land they were slaves in Egypt by pharos. They invented the capital which is owning land by money not by inherent. They invented borders. Finally, Jewish Christian, Muslims. Why Muslim can be plural Muslims. As wee all can't see sound yet know it existance can't see the meaning hidden inside a word yet we feel it. If it is by mistake why ask for justice. What a simple way of life plant seeds grow trees plant TVs grow monkeyies(MONkEYies) moneyKIES. Any way just shiwing what keyboard can do We all humans love fun enjoy imagination. Knowledge, pain. Drugs are the solution but so sad war on drug war in terror. War on people privacy war on sex war on race war on agricultural fuck isreal and guns fuck these air fighter. Peace upon Eminem. And American youth are the only people capable of understanding human mental attitude. More over 6 million people who can't defend themselves and admitted what a shameful nation whose biggest win is a lose. dont be offended or be
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03-01-2016, 10:30 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 07:22 PM)DerFish Wrote:  
(03-01-2016 07:14 PM)Berty Wrote:  I know you didn't count the bodies yourself. But, can you tell me who did? This 6 million figure is considered fact, but based on what evidence exactly?

Statistics. The Nazis kept good records that said how many of them fucking Jews were on their trains. And how many were in the country before and after the war. So the war was France's fault, huh? Go back to 3rd grade.

Everyone on this thread talks about some evidence out there somewhere. That's nice! Now can we see it?
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03-01-2016, 10:30 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 09:58 PM)Berty Wrote:  So, it seems that Hitler had it out for "the Jews" but not other races.

Wrong. Among the 5,000,000 were the Roma (gypsies). Between 250,000 and 500,000 were killed.
Also killed were Poles and other Slavs, the disabled, Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals, Communists, Socialists, and political enemies.

Quote:Where I am at now is trying to determine if Hitler and the Nazis planned on murdering all Jewish people in the camps or if they were just being detained until the end of the war like the Japanese in the US were. And also, if that was ever a plan; than was it ever carried out? OR did people in the concentration camps die as the result of war and not systematic genocide?

Oh, fuck, seriously? What do you think Himmler meant by "The Final Solution"?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-01-2016, 10:32 PM
RE: [split] Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(03-01-2016 10:16 PM)Berty Wrote:  
(03-01-2016 07:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  The 6,000,000 is not considered a hard fact as there is some dispute over the numbers.
It is currently believed by historians that the number of Polish Jews may have been overestimated by as much as one million.

They are largely informed estimates based on pre-war vs. post-war populations, body counts, and so on.

And do you only have a problem with the number of Jews killed? What about the 5,000,000 non-Jews?

Can you show us this evidence please? Because I have found evidence to suggest otherwise from multiple sources. Below is a site with photos from the World Almanacs of 1933 and 1948 that put the population of Jews in Europe before and after WW2 at roughly the same.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=85432

I hate to come across as naive, but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for hard evidence when trying to determine if something is real or not.

That is not evidence. That is a horseshit conspiracy website. You need to check your sources.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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