[split] excubitor vs deconversion
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22-09-2013, 06:27 AM
RE: [split] excubitor vs deconversion
(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 03:21 PM)I Am Wrote:  HAAAA haahaahaa heeee heeeeee!

Wait, okay, just a sec...

(snicker snicker)

I think you don't understand what "Mortal" means. It is a cessation. No more. The End. The story does not go on. There is no, "And then he woke up."

Death, caused by auto accident, organ failure, choking, or bullets fired by ANYone, self included, is final.

Thank you for playing. Game over.
[url=http://www.victorzammit.com/][/url]
A lot of material here. There are plenty of scientists from many disciplines who are starting to put some attention into this field of study.
This website might require an open mind to read however so I doubt it will gain much traction from "thinkingatheists" I have not watched all of this but he seems to be attempting to apply science to the question.

However, just to point out what mortality means. For the body it means that the body decays and becomes dust in the ground. God made the body out of dust and at death it returns to dust. The soul however is spirit. Spiritual things are eternal and so they cannot cease to exist. This is the old annihilation debate which has been around forever. The church teaches however that the eternal soul remains aware. The souls of the wicked are always dead. They were dead when they were born. They remained dead when they first sinned. They remained dead when they refused to repent for all their life. The state of death of their souls is merely continuation of the state of death that they always lived in. In fact death is not a lights off / lights on question. It is a state of variation for the wicked. Their deathness increases as they sin and as they remain unrepentant, and to the extent of their deadness they suffer from the seperation from God and their condemnation in hell, where they will receive the suffering their wicked lives demand according to the measure of their wickedness.

What is a spirit made out of? How much does it weigh? Exactly how does it interact with the natural world? How exactly does it contain 'us' and allow 'us' to lift off of the brain after death? [Note for the slow: neither scripture nor pure assertion is sufficient evidence]

EVIDENCE OR GTFO.

There is a difference between being open-minded and requiring evidence for your beliefs, and being so gullible to the point of believing anything uncritically. You know, being so open-minded that your brain falls out. That is what your drivel and bellyaching about being 'open-minded' really amounts to. People are only 'open-minded' if they agree with your a priori assumptions and opinions. Thanks for playing, I award you no points.

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22-09-2013, 06:40 AM
RE: [split] excubitor vs deconversion
(16-09-2013 03:46 AM)excubitor Wrote:  I find it interesting that all of these stories are about de-conversion. I find it interesting that you consider yourselves to be deconverting rather than converting to atheism. In your hearts you know that going back to atheism is a step backwards. Its like all those 'de' words, degradation, degeneration, deterioration, and the ultimate 'de' word 'dead'.

You have chosen eternal death for yourselves. In your hearts you know it, which is why you happily take the label of a deconvert.

Okay, I have not read the Split, so I guess pretty much everything I will say has already been said, but on the off chance that I might improve on the thoughts, I say we all take a ride on the train of (Free) Thought.

(16-09-2013 03:46 AM)excubitor Wrote:  I find it interesting that you consider yourselves to be deconverting rather than converting to atheism.

First: "converting to atheism"? Is that even possible? Can one convert to something which is a lack of something? I mean, atheism is by definition a lack of a thing, in it's instance, a lack of theism: the prefix 'A' means 'without' or 'not', thus; A(without)Theism.
Does that mean if I turn my TV off, I am converting to the 'off' channel?

(16-09-2013 03:46 AM)excubitor Wrote:  In your hearts you know that going back to atheism is a step backwards.

Secondly: I don't know about you, but I think I know my heart fairly well and I don't remember any component referring to atheism or steps backward in it... My anatomy textbooks must be wrong. DAMN YOU, THE CONCISE GREY'S ANATOMY!! YOU LIED TO ME!
On the flipside: Our hearts don't know anything, the heart is the organ responsible as acting as a pink, squishy pump. That sponge inbehtween yer ears is what dun does the thinkin' and what nots.

(16-09-2013 03:46 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Its like all those 'de' words, degradation, degeneration, deterioration, and the ultimate 'de' word 'dead'.

I don't think those words actually have any interconnected etymological past... However, I will say, I find your apparant belief in that list to be quite... DEluded!

(16-09-2013 03:46 AM)excubitor Wrote:  You have chosen eternal death for yourselves.

... Hold on...
Death is the total and irreversible cessation of all biological function, and by definition, this can only happen once, however 'eternal' suggests unending... Does that mean we will be in a constant state of death? Wait... that's not actually death then... I give up trying to make that sentence logical.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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22-09-2013, 06:56 AM
RE: [split] excubitor vs deconversion
(22-09-2013 06:40 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(16-09-2013 03:46 AM)excubitor Wrote:  You have chosen eternal death for yourselves.

... Hold on...
Death is the total and irreversible cessation of all biological function, and by definition, this can only happen once, however 'eternal' suggests unending... Does that mean we will be in a constant state of death? Wait... that's not actually death then... I give up trying to make that sentence logical.


Don't mind him, he's another one of those 'my religion has to be true because I can't face reality without the promise of an eternal afterlife in paradise', therefore his religion has to be true because he wants it ever so badly to be true. Lets just ignore the fact that we all were perfectly unaffected by the billions of years of nonexistence before we were born, and I can't think of a compelling reason to believe that I will not be returning to that nonexistence when my brain ceases functioning at death. This does not scare me, I also imagine most here have come to terms with out own mortality. On the other hand excubitor appears to be scared shitless about it. Imagine that, believing in eternal paradise makes people more paranoid about death. Who'd have thought?





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22-09-2013, 07:35 AM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2013 07:38 AM by kim.)
RE: [split] excubitor vs deconversion
(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The church teaches however that the eternal soul remains aware. The souls of the wicked are always dead. They were dead when they were born. They remained dead when they first sinned. They remained dead when they refused to repent for all their life. The state of death of their souls is merely continuation of the state of death that they always lived in.

Ah, Kansas; I think I knew that. Shy

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  In fact death is not a lights off / lights on question. It is a state of variation for the wicked. Their deathness increases as they sin and as they remain unrepentant, and to the extent of their deadness they suffer from the seperation from God and their condemnation in hell, where they will receive the suffering their wicked lives demand according to the measure of their wickedness.
So, a fantasy writer/poet, just for a lark, maps out a tediously intricate "levels of heaven and hell" scenario... and suddenly... sad, desperate people cling to it as their divine truth? Note to myself, never get an artist high and ask, "Hey, just for fun, how do you think that kooky shit would work?"... same shit always happens. That fucking Dante ... he should have known some gullible, moron would take his bong-hazed, campfire stories way too seriously.

Artists... meh... what can ya do? Drinking Beverage

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22-09-2013, 10:33 AM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2013 11:30 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: [split] excubitor vs deconversion
(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  However, just to point out what mortality means.

Mortality
/môrˈtalətē/
noun
1. the state of being subject to death.
2. death, esp. on a large scale.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  For the body it means that the body decays and becomes dust in the ground.

When we die we decompose according to natural law and processes, just like any other non-living biodegradable material. Somehow I get the feeling that this is not nearly adequate enough to satiate your unjustifiably large ego.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  God made the body out of dust and at death it returns to dust.

Pure assertion does not make it a fact. Please provide objective verifiable peer-reviewed evidence for your god, and indeed for the means it supposedly used to create us. TL;DR - Evidence or GTFO.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The soul however is spirit.

And the snozberries taste like dingleberries. Positing an unknown unverified A is just an unknown unverified B is about as vacuous as you can get. [Note for the slow: That entire sentence is meaningless and proves nothing.]

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Spiritual things are eternal and so they cannot cease to exist.

Present evidence for the existence of anything spiritual, let alone it's timelessness.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  This is the old annihilation debate which has been around forever.

Yeah, I guess intellectually vapid hate mongers don't have much else to keep themselves occupied...

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The church teaches however that the eternal soul remains aware.

They also taught that the world was flat and at the center of creation. I could care less what they teach, so much as why they teach it. I have little interest in self-serving bullshit some Bishop or Pope simply pulled out of his ass for their own convenience. I know this whole idea of having 'justification' and 'reasons' for your beliefs is a new concept for you, but stick with it, it fucking works.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The souls of the wicked are always dead.

Once again, evidence or GTFO. Also how does something that is eternal ever subject to death? You're in far left 'woowoo' territory, so say 'hello' to Depak Chopra for me if you see him on your way through it.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  They were dead when they were born.

Predestination? Are you a Calvinist or Jehovah Witness now? Evidence or GTFO.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  They remained dead when they first sinned.

More prepositional drivel.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  They remained dead when they refused to repent for all their life.

See above.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The state of death of their souls is merely continuation of the state of death that they always lived in.

See above.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  In fact death is not a lights off / lights on question.

Cute, you think you know what facts are. See above.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  It is a state of variation for the wicked.

See above.

(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Their deathness increases as they sin and as they remain unrepentant, and to the extent of their deadness they suffer from the seperation[sic] from God and their condemnation in hell, where they will receive the suffering their wicked lives demand according to the measure of their wickedness.


See above. Wow, you really suck at this whole 'justification of your beliefs with evidence' bit. You know, like sane educated adults are expected to do. As of right now you're level of argumentation is on par with this little girl at a petting zoo (and just about as effective too).

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22-09-2013, 11:02 AM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2013 12:11 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: [split] excubitor vs deconversion
(17-09-2013 05:48 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(16-09-2013 04:30 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  I don't, considering that the title of this thread suggests that it's about de-conversion stories.

Your drivel, however, doesn't look like a de-conversion story to me. So what is it doing here then?
Your reply here is drivel. Why was not the title of the thread 'Share your conversion story' ? As in your conversion to Atheism.

The title of the thread shows the innermost heart of the respondents to the thread. They know in their hearts that they are deteriorating and degenerating as they deconvert. They know in their hearts that they have gone backwards, shrunk back into darkness, separated themselves from God.

Poor souls. You might be able to fool yourselves, but you will not fool God on the judgement day when he will bring to account all the idle and foolish things which have been said on this thread as individuals have gone apostate to the faith and allowed themselves to devolve into meaningless, darkened and godless lives.

The default position is not mindless acceptance of cults, (which fools call "faith"), but the ABSENCE of belief.
Faith is not the default position.
If he knew even one thing about the Christian cult or the Catholic cult he would know even THEY call faith a "gift of the spirit", and a "virtue".
Neither are moral "default" positions.
Jebus tole him "No one shall come to me, unless the Father draw him", and "Many are called, but few are chosen". He never read the Bible.

Nice try though. Catholics still trying to scare children with their mean ole scary god. They just never get it.
He actually just made all that shit up, I hope everyone here recognizes.
He in NO way speaks for his church. He obviously never went to college, or took Moral Theology - 101. Honest disbelief does not meet the requirements for even "venial" sin in his Catechism. Since he's a mean fucking old fart, he NEEDS to feel he's better than everyone, (instead of acting with humility like his Pope Francis did this week, who said "First and foremost I am a sinner"), because he's a lonely old man with nothing in life to live for except his Church Lady superior status. They're a dime a dozen in religion.
Self righteousness is their hallmark. We see it every day.
De-conversion is a complex mental process. It takes a long time. His attempted over-simplification of it, is simply denial, and it also flys in the face of the Moral Theology of HIS OWN cult's theology, (which he clearly knows nothing about).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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22-09-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: [split] excubitor vs deconversion
(19-09-2013 11:57 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 11:03 AM)Dom Wrote:  I don't hate you or anyone for that matter, I am much too decent a person for that. I also don't whimper or cry and I am not aware of any sins.

I feel sorry for you because you live in fear and you are lacking the thing that makes humans different from most animals - empathy.

Go and try to become a good person, maybe then a conversation with you will be more fruitful.
I admit that I do live with a certain amount of fear. I fear God if I were to sin and receive his horrible punishments. This however is a fleeting fear. Whenever I am troubled with this fear I repent of my sins and go to confession. My guilt is utterly assuaged and I feel forgiven by the merciful God.

The scripture says "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom".

snip...

As I said in a previous post. The knowledge of the love of Mary which transcends all empathy and love that I could exhibit by many times. This is the love which drives me to take a sliver of pity for atheists. Check back with me in a couple of days. I hope that my prayers to Mary to intercede for you will result in me showing sympathy and empathy for those who least deserve it but who are in most need of it, such as the rank atheists who inhabit this forum.


I swear, you must be the real life version of Jim Cunningham, complete with a fear-love life line. Donnie Darko's final comment to Jim Cunningham is my thoughts on you.



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22-09-2013, 05:49 PM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2013 05:57 PM by onedream.)
RE: [split] excubitor vs deconversion
Theists in this thread love word games. I guess when all you have is word games, you use what you've got.

All theists have is smoke, mirrors, and threats.

And the end of the day, all they have is "We don't know... So God did it." Or "This ancient text tells me so."

As an ex minister, I speak from a place of experience.
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22-09-2013, 09:06 PM
RE: [split] excubitor vs deconversion
(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 03:21 PM)I Am Wrote:  HAAAA haahaahaa heeee heeeeee!

Wait, okay, just a sec...

(snicker snicker)

I think you don't understand what "Mortal" means. It is a cessation. No more. The End. The story does not go on. There is no, "And then he woke up."

Death, caused by auto accident, organ failure, choking, or bullets fired by ANYone, self included, is final.

Thank you for playing. Game over.
[url=http://www.victorzammit.com/][/url]
A lot of material here. There are plenty of scientists from many disciplines who are starting to put some attention into this field of study.
This website might require an open mind to read however so I doubt it will gain much traction from "thinkingatheists" I have not watched all of this but he seems to be attempting to apply science to the question.

However, just to point out what mortality means. For the body it means that the body decays and becomes dust in the ground. God made the body out of dust and at death it returns to dust. The soul however is spirit. Spiritual things are eternal and so they cannot cease to exist. This is the old annihilation debate which has been around forever. The church teaches however that the eternal soul remains aware. The souls of the wicked are always dead. They were dead when they were born. They remained dead when they first sinned. They remained dead when they refused to repent for all their life. The state of death of their souls is merely continuation of the state of death that they always lived in. In fact death is not a lights off / lights on question. It is a state of variation for the wicked. Their deathness increases as they sin and as they remain unrepentant, and to the extent of their deadness they suffer from the seperation from God and their condemnation in hell, where they will receive the suffering their wicked lives demand according to the measure of their wickedness.
And once again you have revealed your lack of knowledge of the religion you follow. Catholicism teaches that the saved will one day be reunited with their physical bodies and both body and soul will live for eternity in heaven.

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22-09-2013, 09:39 PM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2013 05:45 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: [split] excubitor vs deconversion
(22-09-2013 05:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The church teaches however that the eternal soul remains aware. The souls of the wicked are always dead. They were dead when they were born. They remained dead when they first sinned. They remained dead when they refused to repent for all their life. The state of death of their souls is merely continuation of the state of death that they always lived in. In fact death is not a lights off / lights on question. It is a state of variation for the wicked. Their deathness increases as they sin and as they remain unrepentant, and to the extent of their deadness they suffer from the seperation from God and their condemnation in hell, where they will receive the suffering their wicked lives demand according to the measure of their wickedness.

I missed that pile of dung.
The church teaches nothing of the sort. More nonsense from an incompetent flunkee who makes up nonsense. The church NEVER teaches and NEVER once said the "souls of the wicked were *dead when they were born*". He make that up out of thin air. If they WERE "dead" when they were born, then it would mean they were created "dead", and that is preposterous, and it refutes "free will". If they were baptized, they were at least alive until they reached the age of reason. Just more proof this fool knows NOTHING about his actual cult. Dead is dead. There are not levels of "death" Not one theologian ever said anything like this utter bullshit. He cannot quote ANY church source for this invented bs.

How hilarious he makes himself look, the more nonsense that comes out. It's complete fiction. There is no priest or bishop or pope, who would EVER agree with any of that. He writes Pious Fraud, just like his Church Fathers. He thinks he is competent to make up Fictional Theology, for some odd reason. For being an ultra-conservative, it is really weird he thinks he is able to just spout any drivel that pops into his demented pious brain. He gets another F.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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