[split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
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28-06-2016, 06:17 PM (This post was last modified: 29-06-2016 12:11 PM by DLJ.)
[split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
I am not an expert in Theism and Atheism... etc. I am just an independent thinker, sorry.

I used hearing that an Atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god (or creator).

But, on the other hand, there are, on the world's table, many images of what we may call god. And each of these images is glorified by certain formal groups (yes not just one group, even for the same god's image) while each of these groups claims having better ways to please (its) god.

I personally couldn't take seriously any of these approved images of god because they are all mere images of some sort of great kings having supernatural powers to which men should be submitted.

Shouldn't I call myself Atheist for knowing that any of these gods cannot exist in my reality?

But instead of being an Atheist and because I am a rational person (since I was a teen), I have searched independently my true Creator because I couldn't fool myself and say I made myself and the precise design of my human living flesh in the least was made by chance/chaos.

Putting aside how I ended up knowing my Creator, my question is:
Does a typical Atheist know what is wrong (to him in the least) in this or that image of god that lets him refuse its existence in his life (after all, this is his natural right, as it is mine Wink )?

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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28-06-2016, 06:21 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(28-06-2016 06:17 PM)KerimF Wrote:  I am not expert in Theism and Atheism... etc. I am just an independent thinker, sorry.

I used hearing that an Atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god (or creator).

But, on the other hand, there are, on the world's table, many images of what we may call god. And each of these images is glorified by certain formal groups (yes not just one group, even for the same god's image) while each of these groups claims having better ways to please (its) god.

I personally couldn't take seriously any of these approved images of god because they are all mere images of some sort of great kings having supernatural powers to which men should be submitted.

Shouldn't I call myself Atheist for knowing that any of these gods cannot exist in my reality?

But instead of being an Atheist and because I am a rational person (since I was a teen), I have searched independently my true Creator because I couldn't fool myself and say I made myself and the precise design of my human living flesh in the least was made by chance/chaos.

Putting aside how I ended up knowing my Creator, my question is:
Does a typical Atheist know what is wrong (to him in the least) in this or that image of god that lets him refuse its existence in his life (after all, this is his natural right, as it is mine Wink )?

Kerim
Noe have any existence , nor ever did. If you can give us any proof please do so.
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28-06-2016, 06:33 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(28-06-2016 06:17 PM)KerimF Wrote:  Putting aside how I ended up knowing my Creator, my question is:
Does a typical Atheist know what is wrong (to him in the least) in this or that image of god that lets him refuse its existence in his life (after all, this is his natural right, as it is mine Wink )?

Kerim

Why do you need a god? No gods are necessary. People made them up to fill the gaps in their understanding of the world. We know a lot of the actual answers nowadays, so no gods are needed to fill the gaps.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-06-2016, 06:39 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(28-06-2016 06:17 PM)KerimF Wrote:  But instead of being an Atheist and because I am a rational person (since I was a teen), I have searched independently my true Creator because I couldn't fool myself and say I made myself and the precise design of my human living flesh in the least was made by chance/chaos.

Intelligent design vs chaos is a false dichotomy but, that aside, "I don't know" is a perfectly valid position to take. It makes no sense to believe in a thing until you have good evidence for that specific thing. You appear to be starting with the assumption that there must be a "Creator" and that may blind you to other possibilities.

Quote:Putting aside how I ended up knowing my Creator, my question is:
Does a typical Atheist know what is wrong (to him in the least) in this or that image of god that lets him refuse its existence in his life (after all, this is his natural right, as it is mine Wink )?

I think I understand the question... I don't believe in any god that has been suggested to me because there is not sufficient evidence to support any of them. The claims all seem to boil down to (a) the universe/life/whatever is complicated, (b) I don't know how it came to be, © a god would be enough to explain it, (d) that means that god must exist, (e) he told me that gays are icky and I must kill a goat in his honor.

The problem starts at step c; proposing an explanation is fine but the next step is figuring out how to prove or disprove that it actually exists rather than just assuming that it does because if it does it would answer the questions. By the time theists get to step e they're adding all sorts of characteristics and opinions for which they have no basis at all.

It makes much more sense to me to stick with "I don't know, how can we find out?"

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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28-06-2016, 07:22 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(28-06-2016 06:21 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  Noe have any existence , nor ever did. If you can give us any proof please do so.

Sorry I didn't get well what cannot exist in your life?

On my side, Allah of Islam cannot exist in my reality. I personally have no enemies to fear or fight (why? This is off topic now).
Also, God of Judaism cannot exist in my reality as well.
And God as worshipped by any Christian denomination in the world is real stranger to me (we have nothing in common).
In brief, any god who looks for followers/believers (hence a needy god) via some representatives on the tiny planet Earth doesn't mean anything to me. Also any god who has a set of rules to be applied on men looks to me as a little kid who is pleased playing with his toys.

But, truth be said, not all men need looking for their creative will/power in order to live happy and normal. In other words, those who believe that the purpose of their life is simply to serve, in a way or another, the world, they don't need to know any god, true or not, in the first place. But this doesn't prevent many people claiming they are believers of this or that god as long this helps them be famous and gain extra money, for a few Wink

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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28-06-2016, 07:27 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(28-06-2016 06:33 PM)Dom Wrote:  Why do you need a god? No gods are necessary. People made them up to fill the gaps in their understanding of the world. We know a lot of the actual answers nowadays, so no gods are needed to fill the gaps.

I agree with you, Dom.
I mean, if someone doesn't feel the need to know about something, it would be a waste of time, if not silly, to try searching for it.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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28-06-2016, 07:45 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(28-06-2016 06:39 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Intelligent design vs chaos is a false dichotomy but, that aside, "I don't know" is a perfectly valid position to take. It makes no sense to believe in a thing until you have good evidence for that specific thing. You appear to be starting with the assumption that there must be a "Creator" and that may blind you to other possibilities.

You are right. I personally didn't use accepting even scientific ideas (as axioms, definitions, theorems, theories... etc.) without checking 'every idea' first by using my personal logical reasoning and its possibility of being useful to me.

My problem is that I can't believe something just because some others (even if the entire world) say it is real/true. Now, you can imagine what I learn from watching the news Wink

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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28-06-2016, 08:07 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(28-06-2016 06:39 PM)unfogged Wrote:  It makes much more sense to me to stick with "I don't know, how can we find out?"

One of the axioms I believed since I was teen is that anytime my brain has a serious important question (to me, of course Wink ), it has the ability to find its logical useful answer.
Naturally, after getting all logical answers I was looking for, my life became rather stable and, most of all, I had no more reason to have fears of any sort. Usually fears are due to lack of knowledge in the first place... right?

Please note, the answers that my brain (or mind, if you like) was able to find are useful to my being (to the nature I am made of). So I am not sure if they are good even to some others. But, fortunately, all men are given human brains as mine so I am not worried about them Wink

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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28-06-2016, 08:08 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(28-06-2016 07:27 PM)KerimF Wrote:  
(28-06-2016 06:33 PM)Dom Wrote:  Why do you need a god? No gods are necessary. People made them up to fill the gaps in their understanding of the world. We know a lot of the actual answers nowadays, so no gods are needed to fill the gaps.

I agree with you, Dom.
I mean, if someone doesn't feel the need to know about something, it would be a waste of time, if not silly, to try searching for it.

Especially if it doesn't exist because we know better now.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-06-2016, 08:42 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(28-06-2016 06:17 PM)KerimF Wrote:  I am not an expert in Theism and Atheism... etc. I am just an independent thinker, sorry.

I used hearing that an Atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god (or creator).

But, on the other hand, there are, on the world's table, many images of what we may call god. And each of these images is glorified by certain formal groups (yes not just one group, even for the same god's image) while each of these groups claims having better ways to please (its) god.

I personally couldn't take seriously any of these approved images of god because they are all mere images of some sort of great kings having supernatural powers to which men should be submitted.

Shouldn't I call myself Atheist for knowing that any of these gods cannot exist in my reality?

But instead of being an Atheist and because I am a rational person (since I was a teen), I have searched independently my true Creator because I couldn't fool myself and say I made myself and the precise design of my human living flesh in the least was made by chance/chaos.

Putting aside how I ended up knowing my Creator, my question is:
Does a typical Atheist know what is wrong (to him in the least) in this or that image of god that lets him refuse its existence in his life (after all, this is his natural right, as it is mine Wink )?

Kerim

If you're talking about god concepts, at some point you'll have to assert some characteristics of god, such as:

1. Does this god care about an insignificant individual that is part of an insignificant species on a insignificant planet around an insignificant star in an insignificant galaxy?

Realizing where we stand in the universe, argues rather persuasively against such a god.

2. If this god does care about individuals, would it really have any power over what happens after we die? Would it even care?

Realizing where we stand in the universe, argues rather persuasively against such a god.

3. If this supposed god doesn't have these characteristics, what's the point? Why even give two shits about this alleged god?

If you're going to assert that this god does this, that or something else, what evidence do you have of these characteristics?

If this god allegedly has the power to create all life, surely it can manage to do something more impressive than a vague emotional feeling in a specific species of primate. If that's all it can manage, then it doesn't have the power to affect what happens after we die.

So to sum it all up: What evidence is there that this alleged god has any powers that would affect us in any substantive way?

Why should we give a fuck?

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Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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