[split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
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07-07-2016, 01:02 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 09:42 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  What's all this about "He" now? Who cares about some "He."

Yes indeed, most people care about some "She" not "He" Drinking Beverage

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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07-07-2016, 02:21 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 10:54 AM)julep Wrote:  Well, why don't you get on with doing that? Why so coy? Just lay it out: this is what I have discovered about my existence and the world, this is how I discovered it, and this is why it should matter to other humans. Bim bam boom done, and then it might be possible to have a discussion.

Please let us be rational (I hope you can Wink ).
Imagine (not of J. Lennon Wink ) that I followed your advice when I joined the forum. Would it be a wise introduction?
On the other hand, I am surprised why some of you are in a hurry.

It took me many decades and many tough experiences to be the one I am now.
And, in front of me here, there are many persons who also developed their set of knowledge during many years and from many personal experiences as well (though I hope whatever they may see and hear on their electrical monitors, via TV and/or internet, are as real for them as movies and series are Wink ).

I will surely start another thread (followed by more when necessary) when the right time comes... I mean after I know better the mood Wink of whom I am walking with here.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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07-07-2016, 02:42 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(07-07-2016 02:21 AM)KerimF Wrote:  It took me many decades and many tough experiences to be the one I am now.
And, in front of me here, there are many persons who also developed their set of knowledge during many years and from many personal experiences as well (though I hope whatever they may see and hear on their electrical monitors, via TV and/or internet, are as real for them as movies and series are Wink ).

I will surely start another thread (followed by more when necessary) when the right time comes... I mean after I know better the mood Wink of whom I am walking with here.


Good luck in your efforts.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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07-07-2016, 05:24 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(07-07-2016 02:21 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 10:54 AM)julep Wrote:  Well, why don't you get on with doing that? Why so coy? Just lay it out: this is what I have discovered about my existence and the world, this is how I discovered it, and this is why it should matter to other humans. Bim bam boom done, and then it might be possible to have a discussion.

Please let us be rational (I hope you can Wink ).
Imagine (not of J. Lennon Wink ) that I followed your advice when I joined the forum. Would it be a wise introduction?
On the other hand, I am surprised why some of you are in a hurry.

It took me many decades and many tough experiences to be the one I am now.
And, in front of me here, there are many persons who also developed their set of knowledge during many years and from many personal experiences as well (though I hope whatever they may see and hear on their electrical monitors, via TV and/or internet, are as real for them as movies and series are Wink ).

I will surely start another thread (followed by more when necessary) when the right time comes... I mean after I know better the mood Wink of whom I am walking with here.

Yes, it would have been just fine for you to introduce yourself with a summary of what you believe and why you do so. And I just gave you an invitation to do it in a thread which is not an introduction thread... and you declined.

Therefore I conclude that you're uninterested in productive conversation. That's too bad, you might have learned something here.
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07-07-2016, 06:12 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(07-07-2016 12:01 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 08:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, that conclusion is idiotic since I don't even know what you're asking.

Yes, I guess I am the idiot who thought you know a bit more than what you clearly said:
"The difference between a deist and a theist is usually understood to be that the god of the deist doesn't meddle or judge like the theists' god."

Naturally, I didn't ask you (actually I didn't ask all here) one of the names (or references) that theists give (or refer) to their god, because I am already aware of many (mainly of Judaism, Islam and formal Christianity).

The problem is your lack of understanding of English. The phrasing "the god of the deist" is generic - it refers to a deist's conception of a god.

Quote:Truth be said, I couldn't get why you couldn't answer with: "I don't know" when I asked you a possible name of a deists' god instead (based on your definition of course) because me too I have no idea what you were talking about... your deists Drinking Beverage

I answered as I did because your question was not intelligible as it was based on misconception.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-07-2016, 07:42 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 03:25 PM)SYZ Wrote:  The scientists gained my trust when I was at high school primarily because they presented me with facts and figures about us and our world that were supported by empirical evidence—that is, evidence from phenomena that could be observed and replicated. They could prove the distance away of the sun and moon; they could prove gravitational and atomic theory; they could split molecules into their constituent atoms; they could eradicate poliomyelitis; they could travel faster than sound; they could breath underwater etc. And although the Christian god allegedly "wrote" the Bible, not one of these things rated a mention. Why not—if that god was allegedly omniscient?

BTW, I'm not sure of why you say you "can't see my mind following anyone". Are you not a theist? And don't you follow your god's word?

First, it is not a crime that a person trusts blindly also any scientists even the anonymous ones on whom many articles are based by saying: "Scientists say or discovered... etc".

But since I was a teen I couldn't believe anything I learned (scientific or else) just because it is written on this or that book and approved by a known system (said educational, economical, religious or political). This is why I had to become an independent designer in electronics by following 'my' science Wink (For instance, I am fortunate for being born in Syria because being independent, the way I am, is not easy in the developed countries that are run by international big corporations Wink )
By the way, about 35 years ago, I built a simple reliable demodulator for a modulated signal (known as of DSB-SC; double sideband suppressed carrier) and I even took advantage of it in my private short-range RF links. Should I ignore it because no one is interested in it? The irony is that even in these days, the undergraduates in 'all' universities in the world (related to data communications) are taught it cannot exist Wink

So let me re-phrase "I can’t see my mind following anyone".
If it happens that someone already said/mentioned what I have accepted into my set of knowledge (based on my personal logical reasoning, strictly speaking), I don't mind if people say I am following him because it would be impractical saying he was following me before I was born Big Grin

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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07-07-2016, 07:50 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 03:54 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 06:06 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Your posts are simply incomprehensible. I do not understand what you are trying to say and you don't appear to be interested in trying to clarify your meaning. [...]

Bear in mind that English is not Kerim's first language when you say this. He's told us that English is his 3rd language after French, and Arabic firstly since he grew up in, and still lives in Syria.

We need to respect the fact that a few people on these forums will have some language obstacles to overcome in presenting their case, but are at the least attempting to convey their thoughts and philosophies (in a foreign language).

May I ask how many languages you're fully fluent in Unfogged?

Thank you SYZ for the reminder.
But, 'Unfogged' (like many others here), is a sincere person. And sincerity is the greatest value (priceless) that one may offer to another.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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07-07-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 04:02 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 03:54 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Bear in mind that English is not Kerim's first language when you say this. He's told us that English is his 3rd language after French, and Arabic firstly since he grew up in, and still lives in Syria.

I understand that but I, and others, have said multiple times that his posts are hard to understand and asked for clarification. His response has been essentially that he doesn't care that we don't understand. I tried multiple times to get him to explain what he was trying to say and got nothing in return.

I am afraid serious things take time so it is good you, like many others, showed real patience Blush

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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07-07-2016, 09:18 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 04:45 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Much more importantly than them proving it, to me, was that science invites you to prove it for yourself (indeed, most science classes operate on the "okay, you have the math/method, now show me that the following is true" principle), and rewards those who can show, not just suggest/argue, that everyone else is incorrect.

Coming from a religious tradition which suppressed true questioning, which said "lean not on your own understanding", and presented holy scripture as something that MUST be true, it was a dawning understanding of how it was possible to view the world that I am sure felt no less awe-inspiring than the hallucinations of Saul/Paul, Jesus, or Isaiah. Except it wasn't a hallucination-- it was and is testable, repeatable, and never held as true any more than the degree to which it can be demonstrated.

If the religion of Christianity had started with those philosophical underpinnings, rather than something that reads suspiciously like a priestly class trying to consolidate and maintain power over an unquestioning flock, I would have much more respect for it and might not even have broken the shackles of my upbringing.

Well said Rocket.
Since the very early generations of the human race, religions (based on rules from heaven) and politics (based on man-made rules) are used to control the common people under the pretext to help them survive the difficulties of life.
Even in communist nations, religions/beliefs still exist because they could be made to work, hand by hand, with the ruling class.
While both sets of rules (religious and political) cannot be questioned (by the common people), the civil/political one has the advantage of being accepted as being inspired by these same common people Wink instead of a certain supernatural being (a god, if not gods). In reality, all rules are created, updated, approved and supervised by the powerful/rich families only (giving themselves one title or another; a religious or political one... if not both).

But since men, in general, have no choice but to play a version of master/slave game (or master/follower game, if you like), they cannot live without following certain rules that define their natural game Wink
Now, when a person accepts to belong to a group/community/society, does it real matter for him if the rules of his group are claimed being of a god or a people Wink
Let me give a simple example. If I join a forum, should I be worried about who made its rules? In all cases, I have to follow them the way they are... as if they were inspired by a supernatural ruler Big Grin

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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07-07-2016, 09:34 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(07-07-2016 12:51 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(07-07-2016 12:01 AM)KerimF Wrote:  ...
a possible name of a deists' god
...

Maybe ... gravity

I guess this could complement... the ancient ones as fire, water and earth... etc. Big Grin

A tip:
Only when someone becomes sure about the end purpose of his existence, he can define his god who made him for this purpose in the first place.

One may conclude from this tip that the image of one's god is simply a reflection of his personal image though after being made ideal Wink

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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