[split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
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28-06-2016, 09:19 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(28-06-2016 08:42 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  If you're talking about god concepts, at some point you'll have to assert some characteristics of god, such as:

1. Does this god care about an insignificant individual that is part of an insignificant species on a insignificant planet around an insignificant star in an insignificant galaxy?

Realizing where we stand in the universe, argues rather persuasively against such a god.

2. If this god does care about individuals, would it really have any power over what happens after we die? Would it even care?

Realizing where we stand in the universe, argues rather persuasively against such a god.

3. If this supposed god doesn't have these characteristics, what's the point? Why even give two shits about this alleged god?

If you're going to assert that this god does this, that or something else, what evidence do you have of these characteristics?

If this god allegedly has the power to create all life, surely it can manage to do something more impressive than a vague emotional feeling in a specific species of primate. If that's all it can manage, then it doesn't have the power to affect what happens after we die.

So to sum it all up: What evidence is there that this alleged god has any powers that would affect us in any substantive way?

Why should we give a fuck?

[Image: opinionated.gif]

I do believe that you know better that I what is good (suitable) to you (I mean to your priorities in life that are obviously related to the nature you are made of).

The universal problem is that, in general, every person thinks that all other humans are made, for sure, of his same nature. It is somehow as a person who has good eyes insists that all people should have good eyes too.

Perhaps it is early for the world to realize that "Relativity" (the perception of things relative to the observer) doesn't apply on space and time only. So I don't use arguing/debating because I already know that the other side is as intelligent as I am and already sees himself on his right path (as I do on my side) despite our differences (due to the different natures). Therefore, dreamers only think of the possibility to change others (unless these others are fresh beings as kids). I am afraid that the only way to change others is by hurting them as criminals do Sad
It happens that not only our biological body has a built-in immunity system to help it survive, also its intellectual functions are protected by a sort of immunity (in case of sane mature people).

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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28-06-2016, 10:09 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
At work.

Hello again KerimF.

Your further postings would seem to be drifting into a form of solipsism

(As a generalization)

Reality is independant of us even as we are 'A part' of it.

I most certainly don't make assumptions about other people's vision. Any more than I think the gravity I experiance is different to any one else on the planet.

Much cheers to you.
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29-06-2016, 09:51 AM (This post was last modified: 29-06-2016 09:59 AM by KerimF.)
RE: Ask Some Atheists
Hello Peebothuhul,

Thank you for introducing the term "solipsism" since it is new to me.

I am not sure what it supposes to mean. To me, everything I perceive should be part of my existence (or reality, if you like)... including my unlimited imagination and even illusions Wink

Being not smart enough Wink it took me about 30 years to realized at last that people are not created (or made, if you like) of the same nature.
Practically speaking, every person is somehow like a unique kingdom that has its own rules and limitations.
So the best thing I can do while communicating with some others is to better know each of them the way he/she is (his/her kingdom is) mainly if I have to be with for a certain time, if not for life.

No one can deny, that all human babies are born with a common weakness which is "being totally ignorant" (as new superpower computers that have no data downloaded yet). But since the ancient ancestors (the kids of humanity) had limited knowledge about many fields in life, mainly medicine, they use calling any serious weakness in a person as a result of sinning Wink Naturally, they didn't mind referring this common weakness at birth... to what they call "the Original Sin", even on these days.

So my main goal for searching my true Maker was to get the logical useful answers (useful to me in the least) to all questions that are related to my being and the world I have to live in. So now, since I reached that goal, I have no reason to say "I don't know" anymore about anything related to my existence. So I ended up to also understand that many people don't need knowing their Maker in the first place because they already know their role in life thanks to their personal pre-set instincts. For instance, one of the instinct aspects is the need of grouping. The concept of god (any god) helps a lot in grouping people (believers based on certain faith) under one umbrella. This is achieved also by being an Atheist Wink since Atheists, despite their personal differences, have a common belief (based on: I don't know Wink ).

Don't you see? Every one is happy (or satisfied, in the least) for being the way he is. Isn't it a wonderful world?

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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29-06-2016, 10:40 AM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(29-06-2016 09:51 AM)KerimF Wrote:  I am not sure what it supposes to mean. To me, everything I perceive should be part of my existence (or reality, if you like)... including my unlimited imagination and even illusions

Sounds all very "new age"...

Your imagination and illusions are real in the sense that they exist as brain states but they are not necessarily real in the sense that they describe anything that actually exists. There is no "my reality" vs "your reality"; there is just reality.

Quote:So my main goal for searching my true Maker was to get the logical useful answers (useful to me in the least) to all questions that are related to my being and the world I have to live in. So now, since I reached that goal, I have no reason to say "I don't know" anymore about anything related to my existence.

What evidence do you have that the "answers" that you have describe something that exists in the actual reality?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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29-06-2016, 11:46 AM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(29-06-2016 10:40 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(29-06-2016 09:51 AM)KerimF Wrote:  I am not sure what it supposes to mean. To me, everything I perceive should be part of my existence (or reality, if you like)... including my unlimited imagination and even illusions

Sounds all very "new age"...

Your imagination and illusions are real in the sense that they exist as brain states but they are not necessarily real in the sense that they describe anything that actually exists. There is no "my reality" vs "your reality"; there is just reality.

The Absolute Reality is like The Absolute Truth. We like it or not, a person can live a subset of This Reality only. This subset lived by a person is what we may call 'his reality'.

For example, many people witnessed, even live (as I did, via satellites), what happened on the tragic day of 9/11/2001. Do you really think that the truth behind this international horrible crime, as known by the people around the world, is the same to all?
I mean as a start; you and I cannot agree on one truth about it because the data we got after it are not alike, if not opposing. I mean while a fact is a fact [The Absolute Reality], the stories built for it could be anything a man can imagine [one's reality]. Obviously, the story of the strongest side ends up always to be the version that the masses should believe as being the true one (in fact, this is how man-made religions existed).

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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29-06-2016, 11:49 AM (This post was last modified: 29-06-2016 05:04 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(29-06-2016 11:46 AM)KerimF Wrote:  The Absolute Reality is like The Absolute Truth.

Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar




#sigh
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29-06-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(29-06-2016 10:40 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
Quote:So my main goal for searching my true Maker was to get the logical useful answers (useful to me in the least) to all questions that are related to my being and the world I have to live in. So now, since I reached that goal, I have no reason to say "I don't know" anymore about anything related to my existence.

What evidence do you have that the "answers" that you have describe something that exists in the actual reality?

Your question is crucial indeed.

In brief, the time I had no reason to live fears of any sort (I mean the serious and the common ones), I knew I completed the set of 'my relative perfect' knowledge (the subset of The Absolute Truth I needed to discover about my personal existence and the world).

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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29-06-2016, 12:17 PM
temp thread
(29-06-2016 11:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-06-2016 11:46 AM)KerimF Wrote:  The Absolute Reality is like The Absolute Truth.

Those phrases are absurd and meaningless.

Thank you for proving my point.
And I respect your reality and your truth Wink by which you have to see my notions (if not all what I say) as meaningless. I am afraid you have no choice but to see them as you said, even if you don't want to (to please me, perhaps Wink ).

Sorry, this is how life is made since always. We can't change it (unless we are deceivers or criminals) but live it as it is.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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29-06-2016, 12:19 PM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(29-06-2016 11:46 AM)KerimF Wrote:  The Absolute Reality is like The Absolute Truth. We like it or not, a person can live a subset of This Reality only. This subset lived by a person is what we may call 'his reality'.

For example, many people witnessed, even live (as I did, via satellites), what happened on the tragic day of 9/11/2001. Do you really think that the truth behind this international horrible crime, as known by the people around the world, is the same to all?
I mean as a start; you and I cannot agree on one truth about it because the data we got after it are not alike, if not opposing. I mean while a fact is a fact [The Absolute Reality], the stories built for it could be anything a man can imagine [one's reality]. Obviously, the story of the strongest side ends up always to be the version that the masses should believe as being the true one (in fact, this is how man-made religions existed).

I said actual reality, not "Absolute Reality" and I have no idea why you capitalize things randomly.

We can have different data about an event and different interpretations of that event but I do not buy into this "different reality" stuff. If we disagree then we need to compare and correct data so that we can hone in on what is actually, objectively real. There is no true-for-you and true-for-me, there is only mistaken beliefs about what is true.


(29-06-2016 12:01 PM)KerimF Wrote:  
(29-06-2016 10:40 AM)unfogged Wrote:  What evidence do you have that the "answers" that you have describe something that exists in the actual reality?

Your question is crucial indeed.

In brief, the time I had no reason to live fears of any sort (I mean the serious and the common ones), I knew I completed the set of 'my relative perfect' knowledge (the subset of The Absolute Truth I needed to discover about my personal existence and the world).

Sorry, perhaps it is a language barrier but I can't parse that into anything meaningful. I have no clue what you are trying to say.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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29-06-2016, 02:40 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(29-06-2016 12:17 PM)KerimF Wrote:  
(29-06-2016 11:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Those phrases are absurd and meaningless.

Thank you for proving my point.
And I respect your reality and your truth Wink by which you have to see my notions (if not all what I say) as meaningless. I am afraid you have no choice but to see them as you said, even if you don't want to (to please me, perhaps Wink ).

Sorry, this is how life is made since always. We can't change it (unless we are deceivers or criminals) but live it as it is.

Dude. You obviously ain't had no 4-way windowpane, purple people eaters, or various fungi or other ergoloids but I think you might could use some.

#sigh
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