[split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
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06-07-2016, 09:12 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 07:00 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 06:06 AM)unfogged Wrote:  If you aren't here to try to convey your beliefs and/or learn about others then why are you here?

Your question is important indeed.

I am here just to say what I discovered about my existence and the world.

So you are here to preach and have no interest in listening to anybody else. That's sad.

Quote:It happens that the little I said so far sounds rather weird to most members here. And, I don't think really it is a linguistic issue.

Some of it sound very weird. Some of it is just unintelligible. Either way, if you won't engage in discussion then nobody is going to learn anything.

Quote:On the other hand and mainly in this forum, I don't think there are teachers and students Wink But, you know better than I if someone did tell you that he learned from you one or more ideas (important for him personally) that he wasn't aware of before he knew you... or you, unfogged, did learn about yourself from someone else here Wink

I have learned a lot here, about myself, others, and reality. Your attitude precludes that from happening with you.

Quote:So naturally, I am here to also know from each friend I may meet (and if he wants to) what he was able discovering about his personal existence and the world.

We're back to really weird. I do not know what you mean by that.

Quote:So I am sorry for not seeing any need, to me in the least, to argue and/or debate because no one in the world can convince me he is not right the way he thinks. I didn't add "and the way he does" because there is always the possibility that we do a wrong/bad thing unintentionally, from time to time, due to certain natural weaknesses/limitations.

That's perhaps the one attitude that I consider to be the most despicable. You are completely closed to the idea that you might be wrong and are unwilling to explain your ideas or listen to why others think they are wrong. That's really sad.

You are apparently not worth engaging with since you are just happy off in what appears to be a fantasy world. I tried.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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06-07-2016, 09:42 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
What's all this about "He" now? Who cares about some "He."

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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06-07-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 07:00 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 06:06 AM)unfogged Wrote:  If you aren't here to try to convey your beliefs and/or learn about others then why are you here?

Your question is important indeed.

I am here just to say what I discovered about my existence and the world.
It happens that the little I said so far sounds rather weird to most members here. And, I don't think really it is a linguistic issue.

On the other hand and mainly in this forum, I don't think there are teachers and students Wink But, you know better than I if someone did tell you that he learned from you one or more ideas (important for him personally) that he wasn't aware of before he knew you... or you, unfogged, did learn about yourself from someone else here Wink

So naturally, I am here to also know from each friend I may meet (and if he wants to) what he was able discovering about his personal existence and the world.

So I am sorry for not seeing any need, to me in the least, to argue and/or debate because no one in the world can convince me he is not right the way he thinks. I didn't add "and the way he does" because there is always the possibility that we do a wrong/bad thing unintentionally, from time to time, due to certain natural weaknesses/limitations.

"I am here just to say what I discovered about my existence and the world."

Well, why don't you get on with doing that? Why so coy? Just lay it out: this is what I have discovered about my existence and the world, this is how I discovered it, and this is why it should matter to other humans. Bim bam boom done, and then it might be possible to have a discussion.
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06-07-2016, 03:25 PM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(05-07-2016 02:04 AM)KerimF Wrote:  Our main difference is that you used to build your knowledge on what some others (who got your trust) confirm as being real and true (likely in the name of science) while I can’t see my mind following anyone... in the name of science or else.
The scientists gained my trust when I was at high school primarily because they presented me with facts and figures about us and our world that were supported by empirical evidence—that is, evidence from phenomena that could be observed and replicated. They could prove the distance away of the sun and moon; they could prove gravitational and atomic theory; they could split molecules into their constituent atoms; they could eradicate poliomyelitis; they could travel faster than sound; they could breath underwater etc. And although the Christian god allegedly "wrote" the Bible, not one of these things rated a mention. Why not—if that god was allegedly omniscient?

BTW, I'm not sure of why you say you "can't see my mind following anyone". Are you not a theist? And don't you follow your god's word?

Quote:Also, I asked once a kid who lives near a Church and a Mosque: “In which of the two you feel better”. His innocent reply was simply: "in which they offer better sweets for kids".
Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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06-07-2016, 03:54 PM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 06:06 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Your posts are simply incomprehensible. I do not understand what you are trying to say and you don't appear to be interested in trying to clarify your meaning. [...]

Bear in mind that English is not Kerim's first language when you say this. He's told us that English is his 3rd language after French, and Arabic firstly since he grew up in, and still lives in Syria.

We need to respect the fact that a few people on these forums will have some language obstacles to overcome in presenting their case, but are at the least attempting to convey their thoughts and philosophies (in a foreign language).

May I ask how many languages you're fully fluent in Unfogged?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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06-07-2016, 04:02 PM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 03:54 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 06:06 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Your posts are simply incomprehensible. I do not understand what you are trying to say and you don't appear to be interested in trying to clarify your meaning. [...]

Bear in mind that English is not Kerim's first language when you say this. He's told us that English is his 3rd language after French, and Arabic firstly since he grew up in, and still lives in Syria.

I understand that but I, and others, have said multiple times that his posts are hard to understand and asked for clarification. His response has been essentially that he doesn't care that we don't understand. I tried multiple times to get him to explain what he was trying to say and got nothing in return.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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06-07-2016, 04:45 PM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 03:25 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(05-07-2016 02:04 AM)KerimF Wrote:  Our main difference is that you used to build your knowledge on what some others (who got your trust) confirm as being real and true (likely in the name of science) while I can’t see my mind following anyone... in the name of science or else.
The scientists gained my trust when I was at high school primarily because they presented me with facts and figures about us and our world that were supported by empirical evidence—that is, evidence from phenomena that could be observed and replicated. They could prove the distance away of the sun and moon; they could prove gravitational and atomic theory; they could split molecules into their constituent atoms; they could eradicate poliomyelitis; they could travel faster than sound; they could breath underwater etc. And although the Christian god allegedly "wrote" the Bible, not one of these things rated a mention. Why not—if that god was allegedly omniscient?

BTW, I'm not sure of why you say you "can't see my mind following anyone". Are you not a theist? And don't you follow your god's word?

Quote:Also, I asked once a kid who lives near a Church and a Mosque: “In which of the two you feel better”. His innocent reply was simply: "in which they offer better sweets for kids".
Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

Much more importantly than them proving it, to me, was that science invites you to prove it for yourself (indeed, most science classes operate on the "okay, you have the math/method, now show me that the following is true" principle), and rewards those who can show, not just suggest/argue, that everyone else is incorrect.

Coming from a religious tradition which suppressed true questioning, which said "lean not on your own understanding", and presented holy scripture as something that MUST be true, it was a dawning understanding of how it was possible to view the world that I am sure felt no less awe-inspiring than the hallucinations of Saul/Paul, Jesus, or Isaiah. Except it wasn't a hallucination-- it was and is testable, repeatable, and never held as true any more than the degree to which it can be demonstrated.

If the religion of Christianity had started with those philosophical underpinnings, rather than something that reads suspiciously like a priestly class trying to consolidate and maintain power over an unquestioning flock, I would have much more respect for it and might not even have broken the shackles of my upbringing.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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07-07-2016, 12:01 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 08:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 05:57 AM)KerimF Wrote:  I asked you this because it happens I know one and I wondered if you heard of too.

It seems you didn't. Thank you anyway Drinking Beverage

No, that conclusion is idiotic since I don't even know what you're asking.

Yes, I guess I am the idiot who thought you know a bit more than what you clearly said:
"The difference between a deist and a theist is usually understood to be that the god of the deist doesn't meddle or judge like the theists' god."

Naturally, I didn't ask you (actually I didn't ask all here) one of the names (or references) that theists give (or refer) to their god, because I am already aware of many (mainly of Judaism, Islam and formal Christianity).

Truth be said, I couldn't get why you couldn't answer with: "I don't know" when I asked you a possible name of a deists' god instead (based on your definition of course) because me too I have no idea what you were talking about... your deists Drinking Beverage

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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07-07-2016, 12:51 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(07-07-2016 12:01 AM)KerimF Wrote:  ...
a possible name of a deists' god
...

Maybe ...

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07-07-2016, 12:57 AM
RE: [split] from "Ask Some Atheists" - Concept/Image of a Personal Creator
(06-07-2016 09:12 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I have learned a lot here, about myself, others, and reality. Your attitude precludes that from happening with you.

This is a good news.
But, on the other hand, please tell me (or pray tell Tongue ):
"Is it a prerequisite for you that you have to learn something from each member here?"
I think it isn't Wink
So please forgive me because you may not learn anything from me Sad
I recall, when I was at school, not all my classmates were deeply interested as I was in Math and Physics, for example. At the same time, I wasn't interested, at all, in Literature, History and Poetry while some others became professional writers in these fields. Was it the fault of teachers? Not at all. Humans are simply created (made) so that their human living fleshes can complement each other to serve the world. I mean, even by sticking with what I call "living flesh", people are not made alike and therefore have to follow different paths to fulfil one or more missions for which they were brought temporary into the time-space realm that we call 'life'.

Please remember that you don't need to reply any of my posts (fortunately we, you and I, are not the only ones here Smile ). But if you think my posts hurt you, in a way or another, please just ask me to leave because I am pleased being here as long I am not hurting anyone.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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