[split from] Atheist because
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09-05-2014, 07:39 PM
RE: [split from] Atheist because
(09-05-2014 07:36 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 07:35 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Yes. Atheism implies moral nihilism. Now you get it.

As with virtually every other word you've incompetently parroted thus far, you appear to have no idea whatsoever what "nihilism" means.

Epic fail.

If you'd care to address or refute any of the scientifically-grounded points I raised, feel free. It's okay; I'll wait.

Science gives you what "is". Not what "ought" to be.

You keep failing over here.
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09-05-2014, 07:41 PM
RE: [split from] Atheist because
(09-05-2014 07:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 07:36 PM)cjlr Wrote:  As with virtually every other word you've incompetently parroted thus far, you appear to have no idea whatsoever what "nihilism" means.

Epic fail.

If you'd care to address or refute any of the scientifically-grounded points I raised, feel free. It's okay; I'll wait.

Science gives you what "is". Not what "ought" to be.

You keep failing over here.

"Is" is empirical. "Ought" is subjective.

But, keep that failtrain rolling, buddy. It's provided endless amusement to your betters.

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09-05-2014, 07:42 PM
RE: [split from] Atheist because
(09-05-2014 07:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Science gives you what "is". Not what "ought" to be.

You keep failing over here.

Are chimps theists who get their morals from your god?
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09-05-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: [split from] Atheist because
(09-05-2014 07:20 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You then appeal to this "ideal standard" as if all people should live by it.

No, you missed the point. It is the best framework I have for judging my actions as they relate to other people. It is what I use as my guide for myself and evaluation of how I perceive the moral accuracy of others. I don't control you, I control me. I do my best to let you live your life the same way. If you can't accept that, and do the same for me, well then, I tried, and self-defense or defense of others is justified, in my opinion, and I can face myself in the mirror and sleep at night with what I have done, or at least knowing I did the best I could.

So long as the behavior isn't interfering with someone else, I don't give a rats ass how anyone else lives their life. If there is a conflict, and I have to chose my response, this is my guide. But other than the fact that I have to live in a society and my actions will inevitably affect others, I try NOT to let morality dictate how other people should live.

(09-05-2014 07:20 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Its inescapable. Morality is either totally a matter of personal taste or its a matter of fact.

No, it is inescapable that morality is impossible to prove as a matter of fact. That makes it much harder to justify. There is no safe harbor to flee to where you can escape making moral judgements or taking full responsibility for them. Even god isn't something you can prove, nor that you chose the right god, nor that the god you chose is even morally good. So, the Christian god is just the morality you chose to adopt as your own because YOU think it is right. But you can never let yourself forget that thinking you are right is not the same thing as actually being right.

Jesus is my Stalker: He has graced me with his unconditional love, but if I reject it and refuse to love him in return, he will make my life Hell.
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09-05-2014, 07:50 PM
RE: [split from] Atheist because
(09-05-2014 07:41 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 07:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Science gives you what "is". Not what "ought" to be.

You keep failing over here.

"Is" is empirical. "Ought" is subjective.

But, keep that failtrain rolling, buddy. It's provided endless amusement to your betters.

Science cannot tell us how we "ought" to live.
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09-05-2014, 07:51 PM
RE: [split from] Atheist because
(09-05-2014 07:42 PM)TheBear Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 07:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Science gives you what "is". Not what "ought" to be.

You keep failing over here.

Are chimps theists who get their morals from your god?

No.
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09-05-2014, 07:51 PM
RE: [split from] Atheist because
(09-05-2014 07:50 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 07:41 PM)cjlr Wrote:  "Is" is empirical. "Ought" is subjective.

But, keep that failtrain rolling, buddy. It's provided endless amusement to your betters.

Science cannot tell us how we "ought" to live.

Indeed it cannot, as that is a subjective matter.

So what?

Your sole coherent objection seems to be, "but that makes me uncomfortable". In what delusional fantasy did you expect anyone else to find that compelling?

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09-05-2014, 07:53 PM
RE: [split from] Atheist because
(09-05-2014 07:44 PM)djhall Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 07:20 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You then appeal to this "ideal standard" as if all people should live by it.

No, you missed the point. It is the best framework I have for judging my actions as they relate to other people. It is what I use as my guide for myself and evaluation of how I perceive the moral accuracy of others. I don't control you, I control me. I do my best to let you live your life the same way. If you can't accept that, and do the same for me, well then, I tried, and self-defense or defense of others is justified, in my opinion, and I can face myself in the mirror and sleep at night with what I have done, or at least knowing I did the best I could.

So long as the behavior isn't interfering with someone else, I don't give a rats ass how anyone else lives their life. If there is a conflict, and I have to chose my response, this is my guide. But other than the fact that I have to live in a society and my actions will inevitably affect others, I try NOT to let morality dictate how other people should live.

(09-05-2014 07:20 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Its inescapable. Morality is either totally a matter of personal taste or its a matter of fact.

No, it is inescapable that morality is impossible to prove as a matter of fact. That makes it much harder to justify. There is no safe harbor to flee to where you can escape making moral judgements or taking full responsibility for them. Even god isn't something you can prove, nor that you chose the right god, nor that the god you chose is even morally good. So, the Christian god is just the morality you chose to adopt as your own because YOU think it is right. But you can never let yourself forget that thinking you are right is not the same thing as actually being right.

You are sad.

You just said that rape being wrong is not a matter of fact.

But at least you are being consistent with your atheism.
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09-05-2014, 07:55 PM
RE: [split from] Atheist because
(09-05-2014 07:51 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 07:50 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Science cannot tell us how we "ought" to live.

Indeed it cannot, as that is a subjective matter.

So what?

Your sole coherent objection seems to be, "but that makes me uncomfortable". In what delusional fantasy did you expect anyone else to find that compelling?

I am making the point that science is impotent when it comes to telling us how we should live.

Science fails here. You fail
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09-05-2014, 07:56 PM
RE: [split from] Atheist because
(09-05-2014 07:55 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I am making the point that science is impotent when it comes to telling us how we should live.

Science fails here. You fail

That same science which quantifies and attempts to explain our innate moral precepts.

I guess just vomiting up the word 'fail' constitutes a rebuttal now?

So what?

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