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09-05-2014, 02:54 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2014 02:59 PM by Jeremy E Walker.)
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 02:42 PM)kim Wrote:  And there it is.... so used to manipulation and emotional blackmail .... probably the only way he is able to relate to other people.

Classic psychopathy.
Shit, where's my popcorn? Drinking Beverage

And where the fuck is the ban hammer? Angry

You do not like for your views to be challenged.

So here is a riddle....

You live in America and there comes a time when atheists and homosexuals are seen as a threat to the growth and security of our society. It has been determined that they should be dealt with speedily and thoroughly by the vast majority of the theists that make up the consensus who have determined that this is the best thing to do to deal with the atheist situation. The majority agree and deem it to be morally obligatory and anyone who does not is thrown in with the atheists.

The government institutes martial law and the atheists and homosexuals are rounded up and sent to concentration camps where they are gassed and their hair is used to stuff sofa cushions. Their belongings are distributed among the theists.

There is no escaping this fate.

You sit in your house with your spouse/partner if you have one and if they have not already been shipped off and you muse...

Just the other day I was telling Jeremy that there are no objective moral values and duties and that each culture determines what is right and wrong, what is good, and what is evil....

Now...

What do you say?

Well gosh! I guess it is right for me to be gassed and have what little hair I have be used for stuffing in sofa cushions!

Or do you say....

Right and wrong are not determined by my society. I renounce my cultural relativism!
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09-05-2014, 02:55 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 02:54 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  And where the fuck is the ban hammer? Angry

You do not like for your views to be challenged.

So here is a riddle....

You live in America and there comes a time when atheists and homosexuals are seen as a threat to the growth and security of our society. It has been determined that they should be dealt with speedily and thoroughly by the vast majority of the theists that make up the consensus who have determined that this is the best thing to do to deal with the atheist situation. The majority agree and deem it to be morally obligatory and anyone who does not is thrown in with the atheists.

The government institutes martial law and the atheists and homosexuals are rounded up and sent to concentration camps where they are gassed and their hair is used to stuff sofa cushions. Their belongings are distributed among the theists.

There is no escaping this fate.

You sit in your house with your partner if they have not already been shipped off and you muse...

Just the other day I was telling Jeremy that there are no objective moral values and duties and that each culture determines what is right and wrong, what is good, and what is evil....

Now...

What do you say?

Well gosh! I guess it is good for me to be gassed and have what little hair I have be used for stuffing in sofa cushions!

Or do you say....

Right and wrong are not determined by my society. I renounce my cultural relativism!

Dafuq...he is talking to himself and calling himself by name.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

Are my Chakras on straight?
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09-05-2014, 03:01 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 01:54 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 01:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  Where do they come from? You have not made that at all explicit.

When you renounce your moral relativism and admit you believe there are moral values and duties that exist objectively, then I will answer your question.

You seem really stupid.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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09-05-2014, 03:01 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 02:33 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The right that I decide it is good to do it.

In your world, that's all I need. Remember?

In your world the individual determines what is good, right, wrong, bad, not bad, etc. etc.

That's right. And all those individuals form a group that determines morality and provides feedback to its individuals, thus establishing a subjective 'good' and 'bad'. For example, this group has decided you're an obtuse asshole.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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09-05-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
'In your world'....this keeps coming up.

What world is Jeremy in?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

Are my Chakras on straight?
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09-05-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
The amusing thing about his example is, the people doing the persecuting are precisely the people, like Jeremy, who believe morality is objective.

Strawman, in any event. You are mischaracterizing and deliberately distorting the argument I made, which was not one of cultural relativism. So if you'd like to challenge the point I did make, I'll be right here.

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09-05-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 02:54 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  And where the fuck is the ban hammer? Angry

You do not like for your views to be challenged.

So here is a riddle....

You live in America and there comes a time when atheists and homosexuals are seen as a threat to the growth and security of our society. It has been determined that they should be dealt with speedily and thoroughly by the vast majority of the theists that make up the consensus who have determined that this is the best thing to do to deal with the atheist situation. The majority agree and deem it to be morally obligatory and anyone who does not is thrown in with the atheists.

The government institutes martial law and the atheists and homosexuals are rounded up and sent to concentration camps where they are gassed and their hair is used to stuff sofa cushions. Their belongings are distributed among the theists.

There is no escaping this fate.

You sit in your house with your spouse/partner if you have one and if they have not already been shipped off and you muse...

Just the other day I was telling Jeremy that there are no objective moral values and duties and that each culture determines what is right and wrong, what is good, and what is evil....

Now...

What do you say?

Well gosh! I guess it is right for me to be gassed and have what little hair I have be used for stuffing in sofa cushions!

Or do you say....

Right and wrong are not determined by my society. I renounce my cultural relativism!

Didn't that actually happen in the middle ages? Heretics were either banned or killed?
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09-05-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 02:54 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  So here is a riddle....

You live in America and there comes a time when atheists and homosexuals are seen as a threat to the growth and security of our society. It has been determined that they should be dealt with speedily and thoroughly by the vast majority of the theists that make up the consensus who have determined that this is the best thing to do to deal with the atheist situation. The majority agree and deem it to be morally obligatory and anyone who does not is thrown in with the atheists.

The government institutes martial law and the atheists and homosexuals are rounded up and sent to concentration camps where they are gassed and their hair is used to stuff sofa cushions. Their belongings are distributed among the theists.

There is no escaping this fate.

You sit in your house with your spouse/partner if you have one and if they have not already been shipped off and you muse...

Just the other day I was telling Jeremy that there are no objective moral values and duties and that each culture determines what is right and wrong, what is good, and what is evil....

Now...

What do you say?

Well gosh! I guess it is right for me to be gassed and have what little hair I have be used for stuffing in sofa cushions!

Or do you say....

Right and wrong are not determined by my society. I renounce my cultural relativism!

Nice story bro, needs more dragons though. Heart

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09-05-2014, 03:03 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2014 03:14 PM by Azaraith.)
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 11:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 04:47 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  * the only moral response to a voice in your head telling you to kill your kid is NO!


More from you?


Yes I have something for you.

Why are you talking about what is moral, when on your view, there is no grounds for you to make such a statement?

This is one of the most idiotic old canards that theists drag out every time morality is discussed. You twits don't even understand the concept, though. You act as if morality is doing what you're told by your sadistic deity, not what is best for your fellow humans. Merely obeying commands (i.e. from the Bible) isn't morality, that's obedience. Morality is "right behavior", which we as a society and a species have largely agreed upon through an evolutionary process to be things like not murdering one another, not stealing, not raping, not enslaving, etc. Morality has evolved since the Bible was written and honestly it's for the better. Today's morals result in a more stable and happy society than the morals of the Bible, which allow for slavery, not to mention light punishment/non-punishment of things like rape, and even the condoning of atrocities such as genocide (as long as the genocide is against the "enemies of God" like the Amalekites or to gain territory, as the Jews were known to do). The Bible isn't a source of morality, in fact it's a source of a great deal of immorality. One cannot and should not completely follow the morals of the Bible without being arrested in any modern civilized society - since stoning adulterers and rebellious teens is considered murder by modern, sane societies.

We don't need a set of moral guidelines supposedly set in stone by your god, we've come upon a better set of morals over time by our own processes. Even the morals of the Bible weren't actually codified by a deity, they were the morals that society had in the bronze age, when shepherds were writing your holy book. It's no surprise that the morals were, in keeping with the time, barbaric. We've since found out that society functions better with morals that more adequately serve to protect people and provide rights that allow people to live peaceful, productive lives.

Believing, as you do, that we should be like children in our obedience to Biblical values is simply wrong-headed, blind, stupidity - it's not morality. You have no basis for claiming superior morality when your morals are based upon a book that condones slavery, condemns rape victims to death (for not "screaming loud enough"), and permits or even commands genocide.

Edit: And from your crazy-train Nazi anecdote/analogy, that would all fall under the "murder" category, which societies have deemed as wrong. I very much doubt any society would flip to believing that murder is ok morally, as a) that would quickly result in the collapse of that society and b) people are inherently self-interested and clever enough to see that if it's ok for them to murder someone else, someone else can also turn around and murder them. Our desire to not be murdered ourselves largely leads to our mutual agreement that murdering others is also wrong. This is simply something that evolved alongside advanced society, and indeed had to have evolved in order for advanced society to remain stable. If it had not, we wouldn't have gone beyond small troops, similar to those of chimpanzees and other apes.
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09-05-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 02:54 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  -----
Just the other day I was telling Jeremy that there are no objective moral values and duties and that each culture determines what is right and wrong, what is good, and what is evil....

Now...

What do you say?

Well gosh! I guess it is right for me to be gassed and have what little hair I have be used for stuffing in sofa cushions!

----

The krazy brain is on the krazy train.

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