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09-05-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 03:03 PM)Dirtnapper324 Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 02:54 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You do not like for your views to be challenged.

So here is a riddle....

You live in America and there comes a time when atheists and homosexuals are seen as a threat to the growth and security of our society. It has been determined that they should be dealt with speedily and thoroughly by the vast majority of the theists that make up the consensus who have determined that this is the best thing to do to deal with the atheist situation. The majority agree and deem it to be morally obligatory and anyone who does not is thrown in with the atheists.

The government institutes martial law and the atheists and homosexuals are rounded up and sent to concentration camps where they are gassed and their hair is used to stuff sofa cushions. Their belongings are distributed among the theists.

There is no escaping this fate.

You sit in your house with your spouse/partner if you have one and if they have not already been shipped off and you muse...

Just the other day I was telling Jeremy that there are no objective moral values and duties and that each culture determines what is right and wrong, what is good, and what is evil....

Now...

What do you say?

Well gosh! I guess it is right for me to be gassed and have what little hair I have be used for stuffing in sofa cushions!

Or do you say....

Right and wrong are not determined by my society. I renounce my cultural relativism!

Didn't that actually happen in the middle ages? Heretics were either banned or killed?

I think the gassing and using hair for stuffing is more a Nazi thing.

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09-05-2014, 03:06 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 02:54 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  And where the fuck is the ban hammer? Angry

You do not like for your views to be challenged.

So here is a riddle....

You live in America and there comes a time when atheists and homosexuals are seen as a threat to the growth and security of our society. It has been determined that they should be dealt with speedily and thoroughly by the vast majority of the theists that make up the consensus who have determined that this is the best thing to do to deal with the atheist situation. The majority agree and deem it to be morally obligatory and anyone who does not is thrown in with the atheists.

The government institutes martial law and the atheists and homosexuals are rounded up and sent to concentration camps where they are gassed and their hair is used to stuff sofa cushions. Their belongings are distributed among the theists.

There is no escaping this fate.

You sit in your house with your spouse/partner if you have one and if they have not already been shipped off and you muse...

Just the other day I was telling Jeremy that there are no objective moral values and duties and that each culture determines what is right and wrong, what is good, and what is evil....

Now...

What do you say?

Well gosh! I guess it is right for me to be gassed and have what little hair I have be used for stuffing in sofa cushions!

Or do you say....

Right and wrong are not determined by my society. I renounce my cultural relativism!

Holy shit, you really don't know what "objective" means.

Here, I will try to explain.

Individuals decide. Without resorting to cosmically infantalising fairy tales to remove that responsibility from them.

Some people find this frightening. You, for one, apparently. You, who would rather refuse to grasp simple notions like "objective" and "subjective".

If other people think something is morally true, and you disagree, there are no grounds for accepting their view over your own if they are proceeding from different moral precepts. Because there is no objective standard to appeal to. Whatever assimilationist-conformist fantasy you're spinning here is the deranged product of a pathetic mind.

That fact that people disagree at all strongly suggests against any such phantasmal objective standard. If it is possible for people to wholeheartedly differ from a supposed "objective" standard than its existence is meaningless in any case.

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09-05-2014, 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2014 03:18 PM by ShirubaDangan.)
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 02:54 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  And where the fuck is the ban hammer? Angry

You do not like for your views to be challenged.

So here is a riddle....

You live in America and there comes a time when atheists and homosexuals are seen as a threat to the growth and security of our society. It has been determined that they should be dealt with speedily and thoroughly by the vast majority of the theists that make up the consensus who have determined that this is the best thing to do to deal with the atheist situation. The majority agree and deem it to be morally obligatory and anyone who does not is thrown in with the atheists.

The government institutes martial law and the atheists and homosexuals are rounded up and sent to concentration camps where they are gassed and their hair is used to stuff sofa cushions. Their belongings are distributed among the theists.

There is no escaping this fate.

You sit in your house with your spouse/partner if you have one and if they have not already been shipped off and you muse...

Just the other day I was telling Jeremy that there are no objective moral values and duties and that each culture determines what is right and wrong, what is good, and what is evil....

Now...

What do you say?

Well gosh! I guess it is good for me to be gassed and have what little hair I have be used for stuffing in sofa cushions!

Or do you say....

Right and wrong are not determined by my society. I renounce my cultural relativism!

Please answer me on the other topic where you are also talking about morality.

Now then, yes it is completely up to society and if they were to do that they could but that does not make it any more right. Were the Germans in World War 2 correct when they did exactly this to the Jews?(Since I am believing your taking this extreme example which is totally not helping your case) Now if you say no, why? Christianity again was used as the weapon during this time period and excused the horrors.

Now riddle me this.

Why is Christianity used so easily and so well as an excuse for horrible things in this world? How does that make it moral? How does that make it good? You have answered me nothing on the verses I gave you then ask others where they get morality from. Well its not from the Bible thank goodness or we would have baby killers, slavery and rape all fine because God told us too.

I developed my morality and I guarantee that our morality now is leaps and bounds better than the morality in biblical times. If God is so Moral then please answer me why his standards are so low?




"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

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09-05-2014, 03:13 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 02:54 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  And where the fuck is the ban hammer? Angry

You do not like for your views to be challenged.

So here is a riddle....

You live in America and there comes a time when atheists and homosexuals are seen as a threat to the growth and security of our society. It has been determined that they should be dealt with speedily and thoroughly by the vast majority of the theists that make up the consensus who have determined that this is the best thing to do to deal with the atheist situation. The majority agree and deem it to be morally obligatory and anyone who does not is thrown in with the atheists.

The government institutes martial law and the atheists and homosexuals are rounded up and sent to concentration camps where they are gassed and their hair is used to stuff sofa cushions. Their belongings are distributed among the theists.

There is no escaping this fate.

You sit in your house with your spouse/partner if you have one and if they have not already been shipped off and you muse...

Just the other day I was telling Jeremy that there are no objective moral values and duties and that each culture determines what is right and wrong, what is good, and what is evil....

Now...

What do you say?

Well gosh! I guess it is right for me to be gassed and have what little hair I have be used for stuffing in sofa cushions!

Or do you say....

Right and wrong are not determined by my society. I renounce my cultural relativism!

Look, asshole, you continue with this false dichotomy. You absolute, literal-minded dipshits do this all the time.

You lack the wit to see that there are more than two positions, that it is far more subtle and nuanced than you seem capable of conceiving.

Fuck off.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-05-2014, 03:16 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
Why do you believe that your position is an objective one? To someone who holds to an objective standard of morality an action is either right or it is wrong. What is your objective standard? How do you define an objective standard?
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09-05-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 03:01 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 02:33 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The right that I decide it is good to do it.

In your world, that's all I need. Remember?

In your world the individual determines what is good, right, wrong, bad, not bad, etc. etc.

That's right. And all those individuals form a group that determines morality and provides feedback to its individuals, thus establishing a subjective 'good' and 'bad'. For example, this group has decided you're an obtuse asshole.

Right!

Just like the Nazis established that genocide was good.

Now you've got it ! ThumbsupThumbsup
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09-05-2014, 03:31 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 03:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 02:54 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You do not like for your views to be challenged.

So here is a riddle....

You live in America and there comes a time when atheists and homosexuals are seen as a threat to the growth and security of our society. It has been determined that they should be dealt with speedily and thoroughly by the vast majority of the theists that make up the consensus who have determined that this is the best thing to do to deal with the atheist situation. The majority agree and deem it to be morally obligatory and anyone who does not is thrown in with the atheists.

The government institutes martial law and the atheists and homosexuals are rounded up and sent to concentration camps where they are gassed and their hair is used to stuff sofa cushions. Their belongings are distributed among the theists.

There is no escaping this fate.

You sit in your house with your spouse/partner if you have one and if they have not already been shipped off and you muse...

Just the other day I was telling Jeremy that there are no objective moral values and duties and that each culture determines what is right and wrong, what is good, and what is evil....

Now...

What do you say?

Well gosh! I guess it is right for me to be gassed and have what little hair I have be used for stuffing in sofa cushions!

Or do you say....

Right and wrong are not determined by my society. I renounce my cultural relativism!

Look, asshole, you continue with this false dichotomy. You absolute, literal-minded dipshits do this all the time.

You lack the wit to see that there are more than two positions, that it is far more subtle and nuanced than you seem capable of conceiving.

Fuck off.

Case closed. Drinking Beverage
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09-05-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 03:28 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 03:01 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  That's right. And all those individuals form a group that determines morality and provides feedback to its individuals, thus establishing a subjective 'good' and 'bad'. For example, this group has decided you're an obtuse asshole.

Right!

Just like the Nazis established that genocide was good.

Now you've got it ! ThumbsupThumbsup

And the crusades said killing non christains was good. The nazis were also christians. Seems like many genocidal people do it in the name of christianity. Again,
Read a fucking book!Drinking Beverage

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09-05-2014, 03:33 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 03:16 PM)natachan Wrote:  Why do you believe that your position is an objective one? To someone who holds to an objective standard of morality an action is either right or it is wrong. What is your objective standard? How do you define an objective standard?

How do you know rape is wrong even if the rapists thinks its just fine and dandy?

Your answer is my answer.
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09-05-2014, 03:33 PM
RE: Jeremy Doesn't understand what Objective means
(09-05-2014 03:32 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 03:28 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Right!

Just like the Nazis established that genocide was good.

Now you've got it ! ThumbsupThumbsup

And the crusades said killing non christains was good. The nazis were also christians. Seems like many genocidal people do it in the name of christianity. Again,
Read a fucking book!Drinking Beverage

Genocide is good relative to the culture.

This is cultural relativism.

If you have a problem with it, find another view to hold about morals.
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