[split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-01-2014, 08:54 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 08:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  You did, in fact, complain when people commented on your religious beliefs.

No, I did so when they flagrantly and polemically misrepresented it. I have done the same for similar misrepresentations of religions to which I do not hold.

(06-01-2014 08:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your scholarly contribution is appreciated, but it won't go unquestioned.

As long as the questioning is intelligent, have at it.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-01-2014, 08:56 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 08:54 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 08:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your scholarly contribution is appreciated, but it won't go unquestioned.

As long as the questioning is intelligent, have at it.

Well, neither you nor I have full control over that. No Big Grin

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
06-01-2014, 08:59 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 08:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  Well, neither you nor I have full control over that. No Big Grin

Touché.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-01-2014, 09:00 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 08:03 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 07:50 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Hmmm, atheism is not a vocation ,

Generally, no, but there are certainly professional atheists. My point was that the fields of study to which people appeal in the expression---and particularly the arguing---of their convictions, can be actual vocations.

(06-01-2014 07:50 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  people are not atheists in order to debate religious matters with theists.

(06-01-2014 07:50 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I find that characterization to be ridiculous.

And I find the characterization of organized religion as dangerous and harmful to be ridiculous. That's not to say it never is such, just as you can hardly deny that there are not any atheists here who base their claims on rather uninformed, fallacious, and amateurish principles.

(06-01-2014 07:50 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Formal education into religion doesn't make one's claims in this matter any more true or false.

It better equips them to digest as well as to present the data and the arguments.

(06-01-2014 07:50 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  It seems that you think that the formal education and the amount of books you've read on the subject make your claims more plausible.

Which claims? I've not really made any faith claims, as far as I can remember, but my claims about what the facts and research do and do not show about religious belief and practice certainly are more plausible than those of people here without any real education or experience with the research, but just a strong conviction, an internet connection, and a reading of The God Delusion and The Selfish Gene.
You are making it sound like it's a chess game, the one who makes better moves (arguments in this case ) wins.
But you lost sight of the big picture. The result is already in. God either exists or not.
Best arguments you can find in your books or the best rebuttals from professional atheists don't change a damn thing.
The simplest "hobbyist" can be proven right, and the most learned pro can be proven wrong.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-01-2014, 09:03 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 08:53 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Big Grin that should keep him occupied

I love my Gwynnies! Heart

But I even disagree with her:

[Image: 307318_483159838414515_386233120_n.jpg]

What I agree with in the above graphic is:

It's Gwynnies! Heart
And the notion is worthy of reflection for those would-be theologians who do not invest in self-realization.

But I contend that predation occurs because we are predators, and religion just becomes a convenient excuse.

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes houseofcantor's post
06-01-2014, 09:05 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 08:51 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This is where you fall flat on your face. Do we really need to list off all the problems with justifying Bigotry and Hatred that religion gives?

I can also list off ways atheism has justified bigotry and hatred.

(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Your own group had very racist tendencies up until 1968

I think you're referring to 1978.

(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  and even after that still considers black people to be "inferior". 9/11, bride burning, female circumcision, bombing of abortion clinics all given justification by religion.

Actually nationalism played more of a role in 9/11 than religion, but the other three certainly have religion at their foundation. Tell me, do you know what causes 6.6 times more global deaths every year than all the world's current wars and national conflicts? I'll give you a hint: certain religions are responsible for attempts to prohibit it, while atheism broadly justifies it.

(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Just because you have an academic view on it does not mean that all the negatives of a system that is inherently designed to control people can be waved away.

It is no more "inherently designed to control people" than is secular government.

(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Religion does real harm in the real world and the closer you follow the rules in God's big book of bad ideas the worse of a person you are.

That's not true at all. You're making reference to traditional interpretations of the implications of specific historical narratives, not to actual rules the book identifies as such. You're pawning off a fundamentalist hermeneutic as your own, and you're evidently not even aware of it.

(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It promotes clannish behavior and persecution of anyone not in your "in-group" it is also vague enough to be used to provide a "divine" mandate to any idiot action from rape to murder to genocide.

Yeah, lots of things are pointed to as catalysts for those things, including atheism.

(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Liberal believers that claim that religion is a force for good ignore all evidence to the contrary, and there is tons of it, so they can have their happy little sing-alongs every sunday and ignore the cancer that they help to spread.

That's a marvelously bigoted and hateful mischaracterization of the majority of the world's inhabitants. I wonder on what grounds you justify it.




Might be the most evil thing ever done.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/mormon-church-prop-8
Here are a few choice articles about the LDS church trying to codify bigotry





Allahu Akbar

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/creati...in-schools

Here are some religious people trying to make the rest of the country dumber so as to fall in line with their beliefs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/westb...st-church/
Here are a few people that follow all the rules in that book. BTW as a scholar why can christians eat shellfish? I never understood why the OT laws are suspended (unless you're gay) when there is no justification given for it.

Also I am assuming you are referring to Abortion with that one snide comment. If that is the case I can put forth a good case as to why pro choice saves far more lives than the alternative.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
06-01-2014, 09:09 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 08:54 AM)maklelan Wrote:  No, I did so when they flagrantly and polemically misrepresented it.


How would you like an Atheist Forum to Represent YOUR religion??

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like WitchSabrina's post
06-01-2014, 09:09 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 08:41 AM)maklelan Wrote:  ...
Everyone holds to beliefs of some kind or another without evidence.
...

Dodgy

Everyone? I'm going to need evidence to support that claim.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DLJ's post
06-01-2014, 09:18 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 08:51 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This is where you fall flat on your face. Do we really need to list off all the problems with justifying Bigotry and Hatred that religion gives?

I can also list off ways atheism has justified bigotry and hatred.

I don't think you can. Consider

Quote:
(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Your own group had very racist tendencies up until 1968

I think you're referring to 1978.

(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  and even after that still considers black people to be "inferior". 9/11, bride burning, female circumcision, bombing of abortion clinics all given justification by religion.

Actually nationalism played more of a role in 9/11 than religion, but the other three certainly have religion at their foundation. Tell me, do you know what causes 6.6 times more global deaths every year than all the world's current wars and national conflicts? I'll give you a hint: certain religions are responsible for attempts to prohibit it, while atheism broadly justifies it.

Nationalism doesn't have the emotional power to drive that suicidal behavior, only their religious belief in an after-life.

If you are referring to abortion, no. Secular humanism supports it. 'Atheism' has no stance on it, nor any other issue.

Quote:
(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Just because you have an academic view on it does not mean that all the negatives of a system that is inherently designed to control people can be waved away.

It is no more "inherently designed to control people" than is secular government.

(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Religion does real harm in the real world and the closer you follow the rules in God's big book of bad ideas the worse of a person you are.

That's not true at all. You're making reference to traditional interpretations of the implications of specific historical narratives, not to actual rules the book identifies as such. You're pawning off a fundamentalist hermeneutic as your own, and you're evidently not even aware of it.

(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It promotes clannish behavior and persecution of anyone not in your "in-group" it is also vague enough to be used to provide a "divine" mandate to any idiot action from rape to murder to genocide.

Yeah, lots of things are pointed to as catalysts for those things, including atheism.

No, atheism does not drive any of those. There is no belief system, dogma, or organization, so I don't know what the driving force could be.

Quote:
(06-01-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Liberal believers that claim that religion is a force for good ignore all evidence to the contrary, and there is tons of it, so they can have their happy little sing-alongs every sunday and ignore the cancer that they help to spread.

That's a marvelously bigoted and hateful mischaracterization of the majority of the world's inhabitants. I wonder on what grounds you justify it.

I believe that is the argument that moderate religion gives cover to fundamentalism and extremism.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Chas's post
06-01-2014, 09:21 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
Why do people treat Atheism as though it is the direct opposite to Theism? Because that is inaccurate.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WitchSabrina's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: