[split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
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06-01-2014, 09:22 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:00 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  You are making it sound like it's a chess game, the one who makes better moves (arguments in this case ) wins.
But you lost sight of the big picture. The result is already in. God either exists or not.
Best arguments you can find in your books or the best rebuttals from professional atheists don't change a damn thing.
The simplest "hobbyist" can be proven right, and the most learned pro can be proven wrong.

But this is a straw man. I'm not here to argue about that, or to challenge anyone about that. I'm here to challenge their misunderstandings and misrepresentations of what religion and its study is and is not, and certainly one's education and experience play a role in whether or not they are right or wrong. I certainly hope you don't mean to insist, in addition, that any rhetorical and factual improprieties and abuses are perfectly acceptable given you're convinced there's no god.

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06-01-2014, 09:23 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:03 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  But I contend that predation occurs because we are predators, and religion just becomes a convenient excuse.

Another astute observation.

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06-01-2014, 09:27 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
All very nice examples of evils committed in the name of religion. I hope it's self evidence enough that horrific atrocities have been committed the world over without appeals to religion, or with appeals to atheism or secularism, that I don't have to waste time going and finding YouTube links.

(06-01-2014 09:05 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Also I am assuming you are referring to Abortion with that one snide comment.

No, I'm not. Try again. This, by the way, is a perfect illustration of how much your cultural conditioning has blinded you to how many real issues exist outside of your distrust of religion.

(06-01-2014 09:05 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  If that is the case I can put forth a good case as to why pro choice saves far more lives than the alternative.

I won't challenge you there.

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06-01-2014, 09:30 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:27 AM)maklelan Wrote:  All very nice examples of evils committed in the name of religion. I hope it's self evidence enough that horrific atrocities have been committed the world over without appeals to religion, or with appeals to atheism or secularism, that I don't have to waste time going and finding YouTube links.

(06-01-2014 09:05 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Also I am assuming you are referring to Abortion with that one snide comment.

No, I'm not. Try again. This, by the way, is a perfect illustration of how much your cultural conditioning has blinded you to how many real issues exist outside of your distrust of religion.

(06-01-2014 09:05 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  If that is the case I can put forth a good case as to why pro choice saves far more lives than the alternative.

I won't challenge you there.

As I was not the only person to misunderstand what you so vaguely referred to perhaps you could enlighten us all.

Oh and my point there was that the liberal church goers are funding all of that. IF you gave money to the temple (and as a member in good standing I can assume you did) then you personally funded the fight against equality and supported Prop 8 regardless of how you feel on the subject.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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06-01-2014, 09:30 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:09 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  How would you like an Atheist Forum to Represent YOUR religion??

Objectively, the way scholarship does, with the lens of the "sympathetic outsider." If one refuses to even attempt to acknowledge the humanity and dignity of members of my faith, at the very least they can be accurate.

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06-01-2014, 09:30 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:22 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 09:00 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  You are making it sound like it's a chess game, the one who makes better moves (arguments in this case ) wins.
But you lost sight of the big picture. The result is already in. God either exists or not.
Best arguments you can find in your books or the best rebuttals from professional atheists don't change a damn thing.
The simplest "hobbyist" can be proven right, and the most learned pro can be proven wrong.

But this is a straw man. I'm not here to argue about that, or to challenge anyone about that. I'm here to challenge their misunderstandings and misrepresentations of what religion and its study is and is not, and certainly one's education and experience play a role in whether or not they are right or wrong. I certainly hope you don't mean to insist, in addition, that any rhetorical and factual improprieties and abuses are perfectly acceptable given you're convinced there's no god.


I tend to allow ANY and ALL improprieties and abuses as acceptable - as in direct response to hundreds and hundreds of years of abuse OF and BY the church.

Now - if You'd like to be treated differently - then simply explain WHY your beliefs should be treated with respect? Are you allowing that religion (in general) has somehow changed and should therefore NOT be misrepresented (your word not mine) or treated with anger and/or indifference and/or sarcasm and disdain?

Why should we treat your religion differently?

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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06-01-2014, 09:35 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:30 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 09:09 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  How would you like an Atheist Forum to Represent YOUR religion??

Objectively, the way scholarship does, with the lens of the "sympathetic outsider." If one refuses to even attempt to acknowledge the humanity and dignity of members of my faith, at the very least they can be accurate.

Ok. Yes I completely accept the humanity. I always do. Dignity I'm far less sure of. Sorry. Taking the role of sympathetic outsider is easy.

The way it works is........... it all depends on how you present yourself and your ideals. Look to your own words/attitudes/reactions as to what generates response.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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06-01-2014, 09:35 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:30 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  As I was not the only person to misunderstand what you so vaguely referred to

It was a quiz. It's supposed to be vague. And I'm actually surprised nobody got it. I would have figured you'd have dealt with this plenty.

(06-01-2014 09:30 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  perhaps you could enlighten us all.

Alcohol. It is directly responsible for around 2.5 million deaths a year worldwide, and that's with only around 50% of males and 40% if females consuming it. The vast majority of those who do not consume alcohol do so for religious reasons (primarily Muslims), and I've yet to see any atheist advocate for any kind of abolition or even regulation of alcohol that even marginally approximates the claims they make about the need for, and utopia of, a world without religion. Alcohol does far more damage to human life than religion ever could.

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06-01-2014, 09:37 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:35 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 09:30 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  As I was not the only person to misunderstand what you so vaguely referred to

It was a quiz. It's supposed to be vague. And I'm actually surprised nobody got it. I would have figured you'd have dealt with this plenty.

(06-01-2014 09:30 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  perhaps you could enlighten us all.

Alcohol. It is directly responsible for around 2.5 million deaths a year worldwide, and that's with only around 50% of males and 40% if females consuming it. The vast majority of those who do not consume alcohol do so for religious reasons (primarily Muslims), and I've yet to see any atheist advocate for any kind of abolition or even regulation of alcohol that even marginally approximates the claims they make about the need for, and utopia of, a world without religion. Alcohol does far more damage to human life than religion ever could.

We tried that once it was an unmitigated disaster and if you really believe most muslims don't drink I have a bridge in New York for sale.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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06-01-2014, 09:37 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:30 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Oh and my point there was that the liberal church goers are funding all of that. IF you gave money to the temple (and as a member in good standing I can assume you did) then you personally funded the fight against equality and supported Prop 8 regardless of how you feel on the subject.

I'm not happy about the part of my tax that funds American adventurism in the Middle East, if that answers your question. Angel

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