[split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
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06-01-2014, 09:56 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:53 AM)Chas Wrote:  Gross and inaccurate generalization. On every level.

Are you saying you agree that alcohol is more of a danger to humanity than is religion, and that in a perfect world we would be rid of it? Or are you just saying that it's not a function of an atheistic worldview so much as a function of cultural and ideological dynamics at play between atheism and religion?

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06-01-2014, 09:56 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 08:51 AM)maklelan Wrote:  ... do you know what causes 6.6 times more global deaths every year than all the world's current wars and national conflicts? I'll give you a hint: certain religions are responsible for attempts to prohibit it, while atheism broadly justifies it.
...

This might help:
[Image: iib_death_wellcome_collection_fullsize.png]

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06-01-2014, 09:57 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:49 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Sabrina's always a valuable contribution. Tongue

Well, when she makes a valuable contribution, let me know and I'll take her off my ignore list.

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06-01-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:52 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I hit a nerve - It's ok.

Hug

It's my general policy not to whiteknight, but I'm less inclined to provide Mak some cover if he's picking on you. Wink

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06-01-2014, 10:05 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:56 AM)DLJ Wrote:  This might help:
[Image: iib_death_wellcome_collection_fullsize.png]

Not really helpful, as alcohol is primarily, if not solely, responsible for many of the deaths represented in the chart by other causes, like cirrhosis of the liver, road traffic, suicide, homicide, etc, etc., etc. For my source for the 2.5 million deaths a year caused by alcohol, see this 2011 World Health Organization report.

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06-01-2014, 10:09 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:56 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 09:53 AM)Chas Wrote:  Gross and inaccurate generalization. On every level.

Are you saying you agree that alcohol is more of a danger to humanity than is religion, and that in a perfect world we would be rid of it? Or are you just saying that it's not a function of an atheistic worldview so much as a function of cultural and ideological dynamics at play between atheism and religion?

(06-01-2014 09:48 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 09:46 AM)Vosur Wrote:  How, exactly, does atheism "broadly justify" the consume of alcohol? Blink

Atheists vehemently defend it, largely because the only real opponents to it are religious.

"Atheists vehemently defend it..." Really? Atheists come in all stripes; I suspect you may mean 'humanists' who believe in individual freedom.

"...the only real opponents to it are religious." Some religions espouse opposition to it, and many non-religious but health conscious oppose it.

The majority of religions do not oppose the use of alcohol.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-01-2014, 10:10 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:54 AM)maklelan Wrote:  I allow the same.
And that renders your quest to correct the misunderstandings and misrepresentations of religion useless because our personal experiences with religion will always trump anything you have to offer in terms of knowledge in order to correct those misunderstandings and misrepresentations .

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06-01-2014, 10:12 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 10:05 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 09:56 AM)DLJ Wrote:  This might help:
[Image: iib_death_wellcome_collection_fullsize.png]

Not really helpful, as alcohol is primarily, if not solely, responsible for many of the deaths represented in the chart by other causes, like cirrhosis of the liver, road traffic, suicide, homicide, etc, etc., etc. For my source for the 2.5 million deaths a year caused by alcohol, see this 2011 World Health Organization report.

I nearly said the same but that would have led to the obvious comment that there is shitload on there that has "god is on my side" as an indirect (but necessary) factor.

Anyway, I didn't post it specifically for your benefit. Just as a response to your question.

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06-01-2014, 10:12 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 09:56 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 08:51 AM)maklelan Wrote:  ... do you know what causes 6.6 times more global deaths every year than all the world's current wars and national conflicts? I'll give you a hint: certain religions are responsible for attempts to prohibit it, while atheism broadly justifies it.
...

This might help:
[Image: iib_death_wellcome_collection_fullsize.png]


Not gonna help DLJ due to we're obviously dealing with an agenda here.
Which is fine - agenda can be just fine. I'm just wondering why it took so long to get to Mak's real agenda which is complaining about alcohol related deaths and how atheism is somehow contributing to alcohol related deaths ???? Blink

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06-01-2014, 10:16 AM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 10:09 AM)Chas Wrote:  "Atheists vehemently defend it..." Really? Atheists come in all stripes; I suspect you may mean 'humanists' who believe in individual freedom.

No, I mean atheists. I'm as aware of the pluriformity of atheism as I am of that of religion, but I have never come across an atheist opponent of alcohol. I have come across numerous, numerous ardent defenders of it who deride religion for its opposition to it. On the other hand, there are billions of religious opponents of alcohol.

(06-01-2014 10:09 AM)Chas Wrote:  "...the only real opponents to it are religious." Some religions espouse opposition to it, and many non-religious but health conscious oppose it.

The number is around 4 billion theists who oppose it for religious reasons, and how many self-identifying atheists?

(06-01-2014 10:09 AM)Chas Wrote:  The majority of religions do not oppose the use of alcohol.

True, but the majority of all humans on the planet, as a direct result of religion, do. There exists opposition to alcohol on purely religious grounds, and I have personally witnessed support of alcohol on atheistic grounds. You've never seen that?

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