[split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
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06-01-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 05:07 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 04:50 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  I still do not know how religion or atheism has anything to do with excessive drinking.. lol that's just retarded.

I think there are a lot of things you don't know.

In other words, "I am too fucking self-deluded and disingenuous to admit that this is completely non-sequitur."

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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06-01-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 04:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, I have come across atheists who are against alcohol, so there's that.

I'm sincerely glad to hear that.

[quote]

(06-01-2014 04:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  I dispute your number. See below.

No, it is not true that the majority of human beings on earth oppose the use of alcohol. Add up the number of Muslims, Sikhs, Mormons, and Baptists, you don't get a majority of people on earth. Hindus and Buddhists don't forbid it.

I can't seem to find the document I used for those numbers, but it said 50% of males and almost 60% of females do not consume alcohol, with the vast majority doing so for religious reasons. I will continue to look for the data.

(06-01-2014 04:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  As a believer in personal freedom and choice, I do not oppose the use of alcohol or other drugs, howeverI don't drink or do recreational drugs.

All freedoms have to be regulated to some degree or another, it's just a question of what determines where you place the boundaries of a freedom. With alcohol, I see no reason to prioritize the right to drink over the lives of 2.5 million men, women, and children a year, as well as the physical and emotional wellbeing of several millions more.

(06-01-2014 04:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  One of the things I dislike about religions is their desire/need to control other people's behavior.

I dislike that as well, whether it's found in religion or atheism.

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06-01-2014, 05:18 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 03:07 PM)joben1 Wrote:  But I don't see atheists claiming to work so hard against religion. All I see is atheists asking for evidence of a claim made by theists.

(06-01-2014 04:40 PM)maklelan Wrote:  If you don't commonly see atheists online and in the media advocating for or dreaming about a religion-less society then you're not really paying that much attention.

Ah... so that's "working so hard" to rid the world of religion in your mind. What it ACTUALLY is is people expressing an opinion similar, and in a similar way, to those who believe that the world would be a better place without alcohol.

I have NEVER come across an atheist that is working at ALL to rid the world of religion. What a stupid thing to attempt. I have, however, come across atheists who believe that the world would be a better place without religion.
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06-01-2014, 05:24 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 05:16 PM)maklelan Wrote:  All freedoms have to be regulated to some degree or another,

Do they? Says WHO?



Quote:it's just a question of what determines where you place the boundaries of a freedom. With alcohol, I see no reason to prioritize the right to drink over the lives of 2.5 million men, women, and children a year, as well as the physical and emotional wellbeing of several millions more.


[Image: red-herring.jpg]
Quote:
(06-01-2014 04:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  One of the things I dislike about religions is their desire/need to control other people's behavior.

I dislike that as well, whether it's found in religion or atheism.

Yet here you are, going on and on about alcohol. Liar.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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06-01-2014, 05:28 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 05:16 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 04:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  As a believer in personal freedom and choice, I do not oppose the use of alcohol or other drugs, howeverI don't drink or do recreational drugs.

All freedoms have to be regulated to some degree or another, it's just a question of what determines where you place the boundaries of a freedom. With alcohol, I see no reason to prioritize the right to drink over the lives of 2.5 million men, women, and children a year, as well as the physical and emotional wellbeing of several millions more.

There are already many regulations and restrictions on alcohol use, so I don't know what you mean other than people should be more responsible, i.e. obey the laws.

Quote:
(06-01-2014 04:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  One of the things I dislike about religions is their desire/need to control other people's behavior.

I dislike that as well, whether it's found in religion or atheism.

There is no atheism trying to control others' behavior. Unless you consider wanting to be left alone a form of control. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-01-2014, 05:43 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 05:07 PM)maklelan Wrote:  And what of the significant portion of those 2.5 million people who are completely innocent, and are only the victims of someone else's drinking?
Well i was only talking about people who die because of drinking.

Domestic violence is an another issue.
Quote:I think there are a lot of things you don't know.
Oh please do enlighten me sir! Drinking Beverage

I utterly fail to see any logical connection with drinking liquor and belief in supernatural entities that may or may not exist.Rolleyes

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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06-01-2014, 05:45 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 05:18 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Ah... so that's "working so hard" to rid the world of religion in your mind. What it ACTUALLY is is people expressing an opinion similar, and in a similar way, to those who believe that the world would be a better place without alcohol.

I have NEVER come across an atheist that is working at ALL to rid the world of religion. What a stupid thing to attempt. I have, however, come across atheists who believe that the world would be a better place without religion.

Then you're not really paying any attention.

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06-01-2014, 05:46 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
I don't know of any scientific study done in this area, but I find it hard to believe that anyone can say how many people in the world are against alcohol.

One of my closest friends is a muslim and he drinks just as much as anyone else I know who likes a drink, and more than most. He has thrown house parties which I have attended where his muslim friends have been seen to enjoy copious amounts of alcohol. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that a fair number of muslims who profess abstinence from alcohol are not telling the truth and do so for obvious reasons.

It appears that alcohol consumption is rising faster in muslim areas of the world than it is in many other areas, and non muslim inhabitants of those areas don't appear to account for this rise.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statist..._and_Drugs
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06-01-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Well i was only talking about people who die because of drinking.

Me too. Lots of people die because of drinking, just no their own drinking.

(06-01-2014 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Domestic violence is an another issue.

It is another issue within the broader issue of alcohol being responsible for 2.5 million annual deaths globally, in addition to millions more ruined lives.

(06-01-2014 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Oh please do enlighten me sir! Drinking Beverage

That's a dumb invitation. I could rattle off a hundred different questions and challenges that you couldn't satisfy in a million years. What would be the use? There's plenty you don't know, such as how we got on this topic. I think that's self evident. Please don't waste my time with your silly little posturing.

(06-01-2014 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  I utterly fail to see any logical connection with drinking liquor and belief in supernatural entities that may or may not exist.Rolleyes

Then go back and read the beginning of this topic.

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06-01-2014, 05:49 PM (This post was last modified: 06-01-2014 05:59 PM by joben1.)
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 05:45 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 05:18 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Ah... so that's "working so hard" to rid the world of religion in your mind. What it ACTUALLY is is people expressing an opinion similar, and in a similar way, to those who believe that the world would be a better place without alcohol.

I have NEVER come across an atheist that is working at ALL to rid the world of religion. What a stupid thing to attempt. I have, however, come across atheists who believe that the world would be a better place without religion.

Then you're not really paying any attention.

Like I said, I have NEVER come across an atheist that is working at ALL to rid the world of religion. A couple of links that appear to be about ridding China and the Soviet Union of religion. The others I wouldn't categorise as "working hard" to rid the world of religion. Oh, and a petition with 29 signatures.
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