[split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
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06-01-2014, 06:18 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 05:45 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 05:18 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Ah... so that's "working so hard" to rid the world of religion in your mind. What it ACTUALLY is is people expressing an opinion similar, and in a similar way, to those who believe that the world would be a better place without alcohol.

I have NEVER come across an atheist that is working at ALL to rid the world of religion. What a stupid thing to attempt. I have, however, come across atheists who believe that the world would be a better place without religion.

Then you're not really paying any attention.



I don't have a problem at all with it. But I do enjoy immensely the fact that you do.



(06-01-2014 05:49 PM)maklelan Wrote:  Please don't waste my time with your silly little posturing.

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06-01-2014, 06:20 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 06:03 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 05:49 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Like I said, I have NEVER come across an atheist that is working at ALL to rid the world of religion.

Now you've come across a few. I'm surprised you were unaware that Dawkins advocates for getting rid of religion.

He makes a case for religion being, on balance, a negative to humanity.
So, yes, he says we'd be better off without it. The means he advocates is education.

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(06-01-2014 05:49 PM)joben1 Wrote:  One link appears to be about ridding Soviet Russia of religion.

Yes. Tens of thousands of people were killed by the League of Militant Atheists. The Khmer Rouge also outlawed religion and a number of other freedoms, killing millions of people in the process. Mao Zedong killed over 40 million people, and he had the expressed purpose of trying to make religion "perish."

Power and control were their goals, stomping on religion was merely one of the means.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-01-2014, 06:22 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 06:14 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Maybe I'm being pedantic, but none of those can be said to be trying to rid the "world" of religion.

They can certainly be said to be failing, but to insist that they're not trying, or don't have a global scope, is pure naivety.

(06-01-2014 06:14 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Also, I find it hard to believe that someone who makes a movie really thinks that he has any chance of ridding the world of religion by doing so.

I find it hard to believe that people like the Raiders, and yet, they seem to sell tickets.

(06-01-2014 06:14 PM)joben1 Wrote:  In my opinion, he was expressing his views. The same goes for Dawkins but hey, maybe they are deluded.

I don't think their campaigns indicate delusion. I think they indicate irrationality, but I learned a long, long time ago that people can and do undertake to accomplish irrational things.

(06-01-2014 06:14 PM)joben1 Wrote:  PS, I know I used the words "come across" but what I meant was met.

In person? Fair enough. I have met a couple people in person like that, but not in the States.

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06-01-2014, 06:24 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 06:11 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 05:55 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This is the problem with deluded people when all is said and done they insist that everyone else has a problem.

We all have problems. I'm not free from problems by any stretch of the imagination, and I've apologized multiple times on this website for some of those problems. You and I both know I'm not deluded, though, and I don't appreciate the insult.

I believe any Mormon is delusional. And Muslims, and Christians, ...
"A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. "

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-01-2014, 06:26 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 06:22 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 06:14 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Maybe I'm being pedantic, but none of those can be said to be trying to rid the "world" of religion.

They can certainly be said to be failing, but to insist that they're not trying, or don't have a global scope, is pure naivety.

(06-01-2014 06:14 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Also, I find it hard to believe that someone who makes a movie really thinks that he has any chance of ridding the world of religion by doing so.

I find it hard to believe that people like the Raiders, and yet, they seem to sell tickets.

(06-01-2014 06:14 PM)joben1 Wrote:  In my opinion, he was expressing his views. The same goes for Dawkins but hey, maybe they are deluded.

I don't think their campaigns indicate delusion. I think they indicate irrationality, but I learned a long, long time ago that people can and do undertake to accomplish irrational things.

(06-01-2014 06:14 PM)joben1 Wrote:  PS, I know I used the words "come across" but what I meant was met.

In person? Fair enough. I have met a couple people in person like that, but not in the States.

Who are the Raiders? I am an Englishman who lives in England so can't speak for the States.
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06-01-2014, 06:27 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 06:11 PM)maklelan Wrote:  You and I both know I'm not deluded, though, and I don't appreciate the insult.

Um, no we don't know that, in fact we can see clearly that quite the opposite is true.



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(06-01-2014 05:55 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This entire derail is to escape from issues Mak cannot and will not address.

No, this entire derail was because I made a simple point and a bunch of people didn't want to acknowledge it, so they tried to challenge me. The simple fact is that many atheists challenge and fight against religion for its perceived dangers to society, but give a pass to alcohol despite being demonstrably many times more dangerous to society. That's being hypocritical, and so far no one has bothered to directly engage the point. Instead they hack away furiously and impotently at the rhetorical branches.

Non. Sequitur. Red. Herring.

You are a first-class idiot.




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(06-01-2014 05:55 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  There is no merit to this discussion it is at best a non sequitor and more likely a red herring to get us away from questions he knows he can't answer.

It has nothing to do with getting away from other answers. It was a simple point on which everyone crawled out of the woodwork to challenge me. The point stands, and as soon as you or anyone else is ready to move on, let's have it.

Your bald assertion has been shredded every which way but loose, Mr. Black Knight.


But yeah, we can move on to your supposed mythical "golden book" that no one gets to see (wink wink) now. Heh.

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06-01-2014, 06:45 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 06:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  He makes a case for religion being, on balance, a negative to humanity.
So, yes, he says we'd be better off without it. The means he advocates is education.

Power and control were their goals, stomping on religion was merely one of the means.

I hear this assumption a lot, but if atheism was just a pretext for the League of Militant Atheists, whose explicitly stated goal was the abolishing of religion, I wonder why no one ever calls religion just a pretext for other religiously oriented nationalist and cultural groups incorporating parallel mechanisms and techniques.

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06-01-2014, 06:56 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 06:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  I believe any Mormon is delusional.

An empty and intelligence-insulting rhetorical jab.

(06-01-2014 06:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  And Muslims, and Christians, ...
"A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. "

Good old Wikipedia. In reality, delusion is a pathology and is not nearly as simple as just changing your mind, and yet completely rational people enter and leave Mormonism all the time because of simple changes of mind. I suggest you actually study the psychology of religion, conversion, leave-taking, etc., before presuming to diagnose entire faith communities you've never met from behind your keyboard just because you find it has some rhetorically zing.

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06-01-2014, 06:57 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 06:26 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Who are the Raiders? I am an Englishman who lives in England so can't speak for the States.

They purport to be a professional American football team, but I have my doubts.

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06-01-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: [split] maklelan and others discuss evidence
(06-01-2014 06:17 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 06:08 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  As far as i know alcohol only affects the health of the person who drinks it.

Tell that to, among millions of others, a man in my neighborhood who lost his wife, daughter, and unborn child to a drunk driver despite never having touched alcohol once in their lives.

So, you want to come here and demand that we go on your anti-alcohol crusade, dipshit?


Your bullshit crusade about alcohol has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism. Period.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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