studying about the bible but never deconverting question
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10-11-2014, 08:14 PM
RE: studying about the bible but never deconverting question
(10-11-2014 08:04 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 05:50 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  What about when those answers are shown to have been wrong? Being satisfied with wrong answers seems kind of fucked up.

Never really had an answer seem particularly wrong. Tends to be the opposite really. The more answers I get the more things make sense. Hence why I'm now more religious now than when I started.

That would be a classic example of the so called backfire effect... really more often when people are faced with facts and scenarios, they logically strengthen their minds to accept what they already believed through reasoning they created to rationalize the view.

I used to have many links on the subject of my old computer, can only remember this off the top of my head.(it's been so long since I've been there I didn't even know it was also a podcast now.)

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/t...re-effect/

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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10-11-2014, 08:27 PM
RE: studying about the bible but never deconverting question
(10-11-2014 08:04 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 05:50 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  What about when those answers are shown to have been wrong? Being satisfied with wrong answers seems kind of fucked up.

Never really had an answer seem particularly wrong. Tends to be the opposite really. The more answers I get the more things make sense. Hence why I'm now more religious now than when I started.

And there you go, a perfect example of what Nyhan and Reifler referred to.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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10-11-2014, 08:53 PM
RE: studying about the bible but never deconverting question
When people need to go to astoundingly deceptive lengths to make things fit their reasoning, what they're looking for is not the truth.
What they're looking for is affirmation of what they already believe.
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10-11-2014, 08:53 PM
Re: RE: studying about the bible but never deconverting question
(10-11-2014 08:14 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That would be a classic example of the so called backfire effect... really more often when people are faced with facts and scenarios, they logically strengthen their minds to accept what they already believed through reasoning they created to rationalize the view.

Sounds like a mental callous. (My new phrase!) The more it's exposed, the more layers that cover it up.
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10-11-2014, 08:57 PM
RE: studying about the bible but never deconverting question
(10-11-2014 08:53 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 08:14 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That would be a classic example of the so called backfire effect... really more often when people are faced with facts and scenarios, they logically strengthen their minds to accept what they already believed through reasoning they created to rationalize the view.

Sounds like a mental callous. (My new phrase!) The more it's exposed, the more layers that cover it up.

I was thinking pus filled boil.
The the longer you let it go, the worse it gets.
Big Grin
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10-11-2014, 09:08 PM
RE: studying about the bible but never deconverting question
(10-11-2014 08:27 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 08:04 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Never really had an answer seem particularly wrong. Tends to be the opposite really. The more answers I get the more things make sense. Hence why I'm now more religious now than when I started.

And there you go, a perfect example of what Nyhan and Reifler referred to.

Quite possibly. I already know about this and I know I'm quite good at it ( to much philosophy Smile ). But don't forget you guys do it to. That's why I don't try and convert anyone on this site. Any evidence I put forward will just cause whoever I'm debating to go into lock down.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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10-11-2014, 09:47 PM
RE: studying about the bible but never deconverting question
(10-11-2014 09:08 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 08:27 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  And there you go, a perfect example of what Nyhan and Reifler referred to.

Quite possibly. I already know about this and I know I'm quite good at it ( to much philosophy Smile ). But don't forget you guys do it to. That's why I don't try and convert anyone on this site. Any evidence I put forward will just cause whoever I'm debating to go into lock down.

That... Or you're not actually putting forth real evidence, and simply believe the other person is refusing to see it. Either way, how will you know unless you put it out there. You might be right, and in the worst scenario, you're just wrong.

I admit that I'm not a fan of being wrong, but I will concede (and always do) when I am wrong. I'd rather learn something true than remain ignorant. Of course, I'd need actual evidence for a big claim like god(s)... So no appeal to feels.
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11-11-2014, 02:01 PM
Re: RE: studying about the bible but never deconverting question
(10-11-2014 09:08 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Any evidence I put forward will just cause whoever I'm debating to go into lock down.

I'm new here, and I've already seen a few who have claimed that and failed. I hope you do better than the ones who just appeal to emotion or accuse others of ignoring "facts."
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11-11-2014, 05:19 PM
RE: studying about the bible but never deconverting question
(10-11-2014 09:08 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Quite possibly. I already know about this and I know I'm quite good at it ( to much philosophy Smile ). But don't forget you guys do it to. That's why I don't try and convert anyone on this site. Any evidence I put forward will just cause whoever I'm debating to go into lock down.

That statement reminds me of a young earth creationist that I talk to sometimes. I listened to all of his evidence, but when I give him evidence of my own, he then goes into "You can give me evidence, and I can give you evidence, but in the end you just have to have faith." What he fails to understand, and I'm presuming (possibly falsely) what you fail to understand is that not all evidence is equal.

If you are looking to find the right answer (because either the god of the bible is true, or it's not) and you think you have valid evidence, then present it. You may help sway someone else's views, but to do this, you have to be open to criticism of the evidence and be able to explain WHY this evidence is good at supporting your case.

If you are one of the people that needs to believe for one reason or another, and only use the evidence to feel better about your position even if it can't hold up against scrutiny, then keep it to yourself. I believe that it is a valid position for some people that they have to believe in their religion for various reasons, even if it is false.

I have yet to see an atheist "go into lock down" over any evidence. I don't even think it is possible, as an atheist doesn't have a set belief to hang on to. We are saying there is insufficient evidence to support what we've seen presented. If there is adequate evidence then I don't think there is one atheist who wouldn't change their views.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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11-11-2014, 05:51 PM
RE: studying about the bible but never deconverting question
Neurotheology: Are We Hardwired for God?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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