suggestions how to respond to a newly brain washed oldest sibling?
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03-06-2016, 03:21 PM
suggestions how to respond to a newly brain washed oldest sibling?
hey fellow Atheists, can u suggest how l reply to my brother who has recently been brain washed (last couple years) by an evangelist church here in hongkong, christianity, his interpretation, is now no1. He still has a large portion of his humorous side, but now tries to get all, incl my 5 and 6 yr old kids to join in with his family in prayer. of course l don't join in on the prayer, was going to raise this topic with him, but stayed quiet about it. today, had a yap wi him on whats app:
"[12:33, 3/6/2016] Nixon : Ricky, any recommendations for good films to watch, is will smith ‘pursuit of happyness’ gd?
[12:38, 3/6/2016] Ricky: I recommend "Risen".......highly!
[12:39, 3/6/2016] Nixon : Whats that about?
[12:40, 3/6/2016] Ricky: seek & ye shall find......lol
[12:42, 3/6/2016] Nixon : U been reading bible wi eyes closed2much!
[13:04, 3/6/2016] Ricky: you sound like you never had yours open"

not sure he is even aware bot the atrocities espoused and committed by his loving yaweh, what are the worst ones? l do want to make him aware of the plagiarism of the christian bible and its credibility, worse than chinese whispers. can someone elaborate on these points and give other things that may wake him up?! thanks
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03-06-2016, 04:29 PM
RE: suggestions how to respond to a newly brain washed oldest sibling?
Ruby, I suggest you send a Private Message to Goodwithoutgod, our "resident Bible scholar" (not really... he's just really good at the details and breadth of knowledge), and he'll be able to link you to so many resources your head may explode.

Fundamentalism is a very dangerous mind-virus because of the way it shapes people's thoughts into a very narrow funnel by getting them to exclude rational thinking-- for instance, to even joke that you haven't opened your Bible is to show that in his mind, if you had actually read it, you'd agree with his strict literalist position.

Well, here at TTA, a vast majority have read the Bible in its entirety and/or studied it academically, and we like to say that the best proof against Christianity is to actually read the book.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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03-06-2016, 04:43 PM
RE: suggestions how to respond to a newly brain washed oldest sibling?
I'd slip him a dose of acid. That's what my younger brothers did to me. Drinking Beverage

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-06-2016, 04:48 PM
RE: suggestions how to respond to a newly brain washed oldest sibling?
Personally I'd say believe what you like, but please don't push it (even a little bit) on my children, or my household.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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03-06-2016, 08:45 PM
RE: suggestions how to respond to a newly brain washed oldest sibling?
Hmm, not an atheist and thus feeling a bit torn here. On the one hand, I should be happy that someone is a Christian, on the other hand...I really don't like Evangelical churches. Overall, no real advice except that I'd agree with Adriananime; that maybe you could set some boundaries with him? (Not that it will probably work if he's "on fire" for God, as it were, and in full blown Great Commission mode.) Or perhaps explain to him that you're being a bit offput by his newfound faith?

The thing about faith is, contradictions, if a person's faith is truly solid, probably are at best, a seed of doubt. If even that. So even if you began to list Biblical contradictions, it probably wouldn't work if he's secure in it. Also, for what it's worth, Risen actually is a pretty good movie, and despite usually tearing apart religious films, the Cinema Snob concurs with that. It's rather neat watching a Tribune do an investigation and trying to balance the politics in the first part. Though I can almost hear some atheists I know, pointing out how it portrays only the easier and loving teachings of Christ, not the whole "I will pit brother against brother" type stuff.

Edit: A final thought; if his experience in Evangelical circles involves volunteering, then his fellow Church folks may do more than you ever could. To quote one of my mother's friends, "I never realized how petty, bickering, and backstabbing people in the church are, until I started being the Director of Volunteers."

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03-06-2016, 08:53 PM
RE: suggestions how to respond to a newly brain washed oldest sibling?
(03-06-2016 03:21 PM)Ruby Wrote:  hey fellow Atheists, can u suggest how l reply to my brother who has recently been brain washed (last couple years) by an evangelist church here in hongkong, christianity, his interpretation, is now no1. He still has a large portion of his humorous side, but now tries to get all, incl my 5 and 6 yr old kids to join in with his family in prayer. of course l don't join in on the prayer, was going to raise this topic with him, but stayed quiet about it. today, had a yap wi him on whats app:
"[12:33, 3/6/2016] Nixon : Ricky, any recommendations for good films to watch, is will smith ‘pursuit of happyness’ gd?
[12:38, 3/6/2016] Ricky: I recommend "Risen".......highly!
[12:39, 3/6/2016] Nixon : Whats that about?
[12:40, 3/6/2016] Ricky: seek & ye shall find......lol
[12:42, 3/6/2016] Nixon : U been reading bible wi eyes closed2much!
[13:04, 3/6/2016] Ricky: you sound like you never had yours open"

not sure he is even aware bot the atrocities espoused and committed by his loving yaweh, what are the worst ones? l do want to make him aware of the plagiarism of the christian bible and its credibility, worse than chinese whispers. can someone elaborate on these points and give other things that may wake him up?! thanks

Don't get sucked into chasing the bunny down the hole.

There are several things you can bring up, like...why do you have faith?

Whatever his answer is for his newfound love of a mythical god, you can then most likely find your counter here:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rce-thread

OR Here:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...or-Dummies

The patient guidance to evidence that solidly debunks all of the magic plants the seeds of doubt quite well usually. Don't get caught up in the sales tactic and "its all about the message"...and "I know jesus, don't you want to experience his love too?" BS.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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03-06-2016, 08:56 PM
RE: suggestions how to respond to a newly brain washed oldest sibling?
(03-06-2016 04:29 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Ruby, I suggest you send a Private Message to Goodwithoutgod, our "resident Bible scholar" (not really... he's just really good at the details and breadth of knowledge), and he'll be able to link you to so many resources your head may explode.

Fundamentalism is a very dangerous mind-virus because of the way it shapes people's thoughts into a very narrow funnel by getting them to exclude rational thinking-- for instance, to even joke that you haven't opened your Bible is to show that in his mind, if you had actually read it, you'd agree with his strict literalist position.

Well, here at TTA, a vast majority have read the Bible in its entirety and/or studied it academically, and we like to say that the best proof against Christianity is to actually read the book.

Thanks for the kind words of support RS76, means a lot.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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03-06-2016, 10:03 PM
RE: suggestions how to respond to a newly brain washed oldest sibling?
(03-06-2016 08:45 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Hmm, not an atheist and thus feeling a bit torn here. On the one hand, I should be happy that someone is a Christian, on the other hand...I really don't like Evangelical churches. Overall, no real advice except that I'd agree with Adriananime; that maybe you could set some boundaries with him? (Not that it will probably work if he's "on fire" for God, as it were, and in full blown Great Commission mode.) Or perhaps explain to him that you're being a bit offput by his newfound faith?

The thing about faith is, contradictions, if a person's faith is truly solid, probably are at best, a seed of doubt. If even that. So even if you began to list Biblical contradictions, it probably wouldn't work if he's secure in it. Also, for what it's worth, Risen actually is a pretty good movie, and despite usually tearing apart religious films, the Cinema Snob concurs with that. It's rather neat watching a Tribune do an investigation and trying to balance the politics in the first part. Though I can almost hear some atheists I know, pointing out how it portrays only the easier and loving teachings of Christ, not the whole "I will pit brother against brother" type stuff.

Edit: A final thought; if his experience in Evangelical circles involves volunteering, then his fellow Church folks may do more than you ever could. To quote one of my mother's friends, "I never realized how petty, bickering, and backstabbing people in the church are, until I started being the Director of Volunteers."

Well, as you know, I suspect a lot of the harsher (or, as I prefer to say, the more Pauline) teachings of Jesus were later added to the base legend. The closest thing we have to evidence of corroborated Jesus-tales are the collections of sayings [Edit to Add: such as the Sermon on the Mount], as found in James and the alleged "Q-document", where the Gospels actually somewhat agree with one another, so perhaps it's not such a bad thing (if you're already inventing a fictional character for a movie, loosely based on the life of a real man) that they stuck with the "lovey-dovey" stuff.

Personally, I find the idea of a movie told from the Centurion's POV to be interesting; I might watch it. I very much enjoyed the two-part miniseries that the Lifetime channel did, based on the novel by Anita Diamant, on the women of the House of Jacob (Israel), showing the early and secret worship of Asherah, among other things. Despite the various liberties, I thought it was well-done and would watch it again. I think it's available on Netflix, if you haven't seen it.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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04-06-2016, 04:41 AM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2016 05:26 AM by DLJ.)
RE: suggestions how to respond to a newly brain washed oldest sibling?
Tell him that the bible was assembled by the early church leaders from around 170CE and argued over (of course) and confirmed as late as The Council of Hippo (393CE) and the Council of Carthage (397CE).

Tell him that they were the equivalent of Chairman Mao's Little Red Book.

Both are 'control manuals', propaganda and were published to establish or formalise a personality cult.

Same goes for the Quran.

Or, maybe, don't tell him that. Instead, every time he throws some biblical stuff at you, throw some Mao or Quran (or book of Mormon or Gaddafi's Green Book) back at him with equal sincerity (like you really believe it).

He'll think you are crazy.

Sooner or later he'll look in the mirror and see crazy looking back.

Yes

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04-06-2016, 04:54 AM
RE: suggestions how to respond to a newly brain washed oldest sibling?
(03-06-2016 04:48 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Personally I'd say believe what you like, but please don't push it (even a little bit) on my children, or my household.

I agree with that.

After making that clear if he brings it up again I suggest being very aggressive and vitriolic. Be shockingingly ugly and rude. I don't agree with trying argue in a civil way or trying to use logic to coax him into disbelief. Just make sure that bringing it up to you and especially your kids is so unpleasant he won't feel comfortable at all doing it again. After that, if he mentions it to your kids a third time tell him to get the fuck out of your life. You don't have to follow through forever because it's your brother but at least a few months so he gets the point that you're not fucking joking.
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