teacher arressted for statutory rape
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02-03-2016, 12:22 AM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(01-03-2016 11:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, I'm going to voice an apparently minority opinion or two.

First, that I don't think that a sexual relationship between a teenage boy and an adult woman should be illegal.
Do you really think that coercion by the woman is necessary? Do you really believe that there is harm being done?

Also, it should not be a crime for two teenagers to have a sexual relationship.

I also believe that the laws regarding teenage girl/adult man should remain as is.
Yes, there should be a 'double standard'.

I think that that route is fraught with potential for misunderstanding. I do also think that teenage boys are equally emotionally unstable as girls and an adult, especially an adult in a position of power, has an immeasurably superior ability to mould that person's identity. So though perhaps teenage boys would love it, it's still to my mind not a good idea. Rather a clear cut law.

Two teenagers in a sexual relationship I agree, but again I think the law needs to be very carefully thought out.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-03-2016, 07:46 AM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2016 09:44 AM by Birdguy1979.)
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(01-03-2016 11:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, I'm going to voice an apparently minority opinion or two.

First, that I don't think that a sexual relationship between a teenage boy and an adult woman should be illegal.
Do you really think that coercion by the woman is necessary? Do you really believe that there is harm being done?

Also, it should not be a crime for two teenagers to have a sexual relationship.

I also believe that the laws regarding teenage girl/adult man should remain as is.
Yes, there should be a 'double standard'.

If it is illegal for one, it should be illegal for all. Also, it is only illegal because of the Catholic Church. People were breeding way too quickly, so they came up with that rule. We have far too massive a population for people to be producing kids by the age of 13 or 14, but that would change if there was a massive die off. There are reasons for the current laws, but they are completely arbitrary. Nobody ever wants to say the guy that married 13 year olds back in the day were sick or pedophiles. I have asked many and the conclusion is usually that they were not sick or wrong back then, but it is wrong now. It was because the population was lower by far and you usually died between 30 and 40 years old. If things keep going the way they are, the legal age for sex might end up being 25 or 30. That would make any porn containing images of women between 18 and 24 child porn. So, as long as it is illegal for men to have sex with women under 18 even if it is by a single day it is illegal for women to have sex with guys under the age of 18. After all, we don't need the population growing any faster than it already is.
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02-03-2016, 08:07 AM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(01-03-2016 11:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, I'm going to voice an apparently minority opinion or two.

First, that I don't think that a sexual relationship between a teenage boy and an adult woman should be illegal.
Do you really think that coercion by the woman is necessary? Do you really believe that there is harm being done?

Also, it should not be a crime for two teenagers to have a sexual relationship.

I also believe that the laws regarding teenage girl/adult man should remain as is.
Yes, there should be a 'double standard'.

I indeed disagree with your point number one for the same reason I disagree with a relationship between a teenager girl and an adult man. An adult possess a much greater understanding and knowledge of the social, psychological and physical elements of a sexual relationship. It immediatly places their teenager partner in a subsurvient position which is unhealthy in any relationship and especially at this age where their first few experiences will affect dramatically how they perceive their own sexuality and love relationship. In a sexual or love relationship no partner should be subsurvient to another. Rape doesn't need to coercive to be rape. In fact most rapists, being family members, spouses and friends, will abuse of their position of trust to rape their victim. They will play on emotions and other weaknesses to extort what they want.

As for two teenagers, you will be happy to know that Canada (shared by several other countries) as a pretty sane perception of the age of concent that declines itself like so.

14 to 17 (you are green)
16 to 24 (you are green)
18+

This system was developped to protect teenagers while still allowing them to experiment safely amongst one another and build their own experience and knowledge of sexual relationship and love. In other word, teenagers should be allowed to have sex, but should do it only with those who have a similar level of understanding of love and sex than them to avoid problems. In no case should they have sex with someone with direct authority over them.

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02-03-2016, 08:21 AM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 12:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-03-2016 11:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, I'm going to voice an apparently minority opinion or two.

First, that I don't think that a sexual relationship between a teenage boy and an adult woman should be illegal.
Do you really think that coercion by the woman is necessary? Do you really believe that there is harm being done?

Also, it should not be a crime for two teenagers to have a sexual relationship.

I also believe that the laws regarding teenage girl/adult man should remain as is.
Yes, there should be a 'double standard'.

I think that that route is fraught with potential for misunderstanding. I do also think that teenage boys are equally emotionally unstable as girls and an adult, especially an adult in a position of power, has an immeasurably superior ability to mould that person's identity. So though perhaps teenage boys would love it, it's still to my mind not a good idea. Rather a clear cut law.

I disagree with the implications of "equally emotionally unstable as girls" as males and females have different attitudes and reactions to sex.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-03-2016, 08:25 AM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 07:46 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(01-03-2016 11:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, I'm going to voice an apparently minority opinion or two.

First, that I don't think that a sexual relationship between a teenage boy and an adult woman should be illegal.
Do you really think that coercion by the woman is necessary? Do you really believe that there is harm being done?

Also, it should not be a crime for two teenagers to have a sexual relationship.

I also believe that the laws regarding teenage girl/adult man should remain as is.
Yes, there should be a 'double standard'.

If it is illegal for, it should be illegal for all.

Why? You have providecd no reason for that.

Quote:Also, it is only illegal because of the Catholic Church.

Citation needed.

Quote:People were breeding way too quickly, so they came up with that rule.

Citation needed.

Quote:We have far too massive a population for people to be producing kids by the age of 13 or 14, but that would change if there was a massive die off.

This is about sex, not reproduction.

Quote:There are reasons for the current laws, but they are completely arbitrary.

That is precisely my point.

Quote:Nobody ever wants to say the guy that married 13 year olds back in the day were sick or pedophiles. I have asked many and the conclusion is usually that they were not sick or wrong back then, but it is wrong now. It was because the population was lower by far and you usually died between 30 and 40 years old. If things keep going the way they are, the legal age for sex might end up being 25 or 30. That would make any porn containing images of women between 18 and 24 child porn. So, as long as it is illegal for men to have sex with women under 18 even if it is by a single day it is illegal for women to have sex with guys under the age of 18. After all, we don't need the population growing any faster than it already is.

That's a very odd argument.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-03-2016, 08:28 AM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 08:07 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(01-03-2016 11:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, I'm going to voice an apparently minority opinion or two.

First, that I don't think that a sexual relationship between a teenage boy and an adult woman should be illegal.
Do you really think that coercion by the woman is necessary? Do you really believe that there is harm being done?

Also, it should not be a crime for two teenagers to have a sexual relationship.

I also believe that the laws regarding teenage girl/adult man should remain as is.
Yes, there should be a 'double standard'.

I indeed disagree with your point number one for the same reason I disagree with a relationship between a teenager girl and an adult man. An adult possess a much greater understanding and knowledge of the social, psychological and physical elements of a sexual relationship. It immediatly places their teenager partner in a subsurvient position which is unhealthy in any relationship and especially at this age where their first few experiences will affect dramatically how they perceive their own sexuality and love relationship.

Were you ever a teenage boy? Consider

Quote:In a sexual or love relationship no partner should be subsurvient to another.

I disagree with your analysis of a power dynamic.

Quote:Rape doesn't need to coercive to be rape.

Only by definition - the very definition that I am claiming is unwarranted.

Quote:In fact most rapists, being family members, spouses and friends, will abuse of their position of trust to rape their victim. They will play on emotions and other weaknesses to extort what they want.

This is not about rape.

Quote:As for two teenagers, you will be happy to know that Canada (shared by several other countries) as a pretty sane perception of the age of concent that declines itself like so.

14 to 17 (you are green)
16 to 24 (you are green)
18+

This system was developped to protect teenagers while still allowing them to experiment safely amongst one another and build their own experience and knowledge of sexual relationship and love. In other word, teenagers should be allowed to have sex, but should do it only with those who have a similar level of understanding of love and sex than them to avoid problems. In no case should they have sex with someone with direct authority over them.

That seems reasonable as far as it goes.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-03-2016, 08:34 AM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 08:21 AM)Chas Wrote:  I disagree with the implications of "equally emotionally unstable as girls" as males and females have different attitudes and reactions to sex.

They're clueless hormonal idiots. And adult in a power position is going to be able to control them however they want.

However, if there's research that can be referenced I'm willing to have my mind changed. But on the face of it, no way, no how.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-03-2016, 08:40 AM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(29-02-2016 05:46 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(29-02-2016 05:44 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Why is it that all the female teachers doing this are hot and the males all look like molesters? Just sayin'.

Really? Marylou was hot.... ewww. No.

EDIT: Mary Kay Letourneau

They are just as bad. Bye-bye go directly to jail.

Female teachers who do this are just as bad? I agree.

Mary Kay was not hot? I don't know...she looks kind of hot to me. In a bunny boiler sort of way... Big Grin

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02-03-2016, 09:15 AM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
@Chas

You need to be seriously more clear with your points if you want to have any sort of conversation with me on this subject.

On what ground do you disagree with my analysis of the power dynamic in a couple between a teenager girl/boy vs and adult over the age 24? Do you think the word subservient is to strong or that in a relationship one partner (always the same) should be subservient or anything else?

If non coercitive relationship that aren't concenting aren't rape how should they be called? Why should they be have a unique term to define them since there is already several degrees of rape much like there is different degrees of murder? Should non coercitive, but non concenting relationship be legal?

How is the fact that most rapists are family member, spouses or friends of their victim not about rape? It informs us of the nature of the relationship between the criminal and its victim and inform us on the dynamic behind most rape. Thus its about rape, unless you were referring only to your personal definition of rape which seems to be narrower than mine.

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02-03-2016, 09:23 AM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 08:34 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-03-2016 08:21 AM)Chas Wrote:  I disagree with the implications of "equally emotionally unstable as girls" as males and females have different attitudes and reactions to sex.

They're clueless hormonal idiots. And adult in a power position is going to be able to control them however they want.

However, if there's research that can be referenced I'm willing to have my mind changed. But on the face of it, no way, no how.

While I agree with you on the end result, Chas is right when he mentionned that men and women (and by extension boys and girls) have different attitudes and reaction to sex and relationship. The only problem, is that despite the differences in behavior between boys and girls, they are both equally easy to manipulate for an adult because both group are tought to trust adults and obey them especially if they are (or seem) nice, carring and honest. Teenager are easy preys for sex predators.

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