teacher arressted for statutory rape
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02-03-2016, 01:33 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2016 01:41 PM by Chas.)
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 01:14 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @Chas

You did made a claim by saying that you thougth that girls would have more problems than boys with having sexual relationship with adults. ]

"I think ..." is clearly an opinion. And my original post stated: "Well, I'm going to voice an apparently minority opinion or two."

Quote:You presented it as an opinion, but an opinion is based on something and in your case on nothing really solid.

Asked and answered. It is based on my experience.

Quote:Thus your opinion can be dismissed as worthless unless you have better arguments to support your case.

It is not a claim. Claims can be dismissed, opinions can be valued or not.
You don't value my opinion. So what.

Quote:In that context fantasm and fantasy are synonymous, but its true that fantasy is more commonly used (direct translation from french, my first language. You will notice I do this frequently. I try to improve).

'fantasm' is not an English word. The word you seek is 'phantasm'.
It is not a synonym of 'fantasy'.

Quote:History is also full of teenager girls being introduced to sex by a man without any bad consequences.

On the contrary, history shows quite the opposite which is why these laws were first put in place.

Quote:Considering that you have not, neither did you menteionned that you peronnaly knew someone who was introduced and had a healthy relationship with an adult women while being a teenager, you have no experience in the matter;

My father was introduced to sex at age 13 by the housemaid.

Quote:not more than I have a war experience because I studied millitary history, applied in the army and practice martial arts. I never went to war. You never had a relationship with that teacher or an adult while you were in your teen.

Now there is a claim with absolutely no evidence, you have pulled that out of your ass.

Quote:Thus, yes the correct term is prejudice. You assume that in those situation it would be fine, because you heard in some story that it was and you pictured yourself being fine. Is it possible? Yes I suppose it is, but in our time and our culture it's very unlikely.

Wrong. Try reading what I have actually written.

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02-03-2016, 01:38 PM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 01:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  What's so desperately difficult about the kid waiting a few years before sticking his schlong in? I think the potential for harm from legalising it far outweighs any potential benefit. What benefit is there anyway? A kid gets his rocks off a few years earlier than he would have otherwise?

My argument is more accurately that the law should not be cut-and-dried.
Do you really think there is the likelihood of harm to a 15 year-old boy from being introduced to sex by a 25 year-old woman? I don't.

Quote:A non-sexual but loving relationship with an older woman would be perfectly fine legally speaking, I believe? So why must the older woman who may well have chosen this kid as her prey be protected in this situation if there is sex involved?

You assume 'prey'. Why?

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02-03-2016, 01:43 PM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 01:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-03-2016 01:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  What's so desperately difficult about the kid waiting a few years before sticking his schlong in? I think the potential for harm from legalising it far outweighs any potential benefit. What benefit is there anyway? A kid gets his rocks off a few years earlier than he would have otherwise?

My argument is more accurately that the law should not be cut-and-dried.
Do you really think there is the likelihood of harm to a 15 year-old boy from being introduced to sex by a 25 year-old woman? I don't.
Some 15 year old kids can drive perfectly well. Let's licence them all?

Quote:
Quote:A non-sexual but loving relationship with an older woman would be perfectly fine legally speaking, I believe? So why must the older woman who may well have chosen this kid as her prey be protected in this situation if there is sex involved?

You assume 'prey'. Why?

I don't assume. That's why I say "may well". Come on old man. There do exist such things as sexual predators and it is usual to attempt to protect the kids from them - as with other protection measures this often entails some inconvenience to those who are law-abiding by nature. The law has to be one size fits all 'cos that's the nature of law, unless you want armies of lawyers involved, which no sane person wants.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-03-2016, 01:53 PM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 01:43 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-03-2016 01:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  My argument is more accurately that the law should not be cut-and-dried.
Do you really think there is the likelihood of harm to a 15 year-old boy from being introduced to sex by a 25 year-old woman? I don't.
Some 15 year old kids can drive perfectly well. Let's licence them all?

We don't license them all because not only aren't all of them qualified, very few are. The risks to other people are too great.
And you didn't answer the question. Drinking Beverage

Quote:
Quote:You assume 'prey'. Why?

I don't assume. That's why I say "may well". Come on old man.

You chose the word and the unlikely situation.

Quote:There do exist such things as sexual predators and it is usual to attempt to protect the kids from them - as with other protection measures this often entails some inconvenience to those who are law-abiding by nature. The law has to be one size fits all 'cos that's the nature of law, unless you want armies of lawyers involved, which no sane person wants.

The vast majority of sexual predators are men.

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02-03-2016, 02:07 PM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
@Chas

fantasm is a alternative spelling of phantasm. Here is for your personnal interest.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fantasm

History is full of story of boys being left as wrecks by abusing older women too you know. In fact history is full of abused teenager by adults in sexual context. This is exactly why we have prohibited those relationship for both sex and frankly, you have made a poor case for you opinion to allow teenager boys to have sex with adult much older than they are. You ask why it matter? That's the point of this conversation, convince that your opinon is valuable else you are both wasting our time. Thank you for sharing your father's experience, its much more valuable than your fantasm. If you don't mention it allow me to assume it never happenned to you since this is very pertinent to our conversation. I apologies if you thought that assumption came to quickly.

On another note. This is my understanding of what you wrote so far.

1) teenager boys should be authorised to consent to have sex, but girls not because there is more danger for girls than boys.

2) To support this, your own fantasm, your father experience with a housemade almost a 75 years ago (i assume since you mentionned being in your 50's in another thread, correct me if I am wrong).

To avoid further jump to conclusion (which might be hurtfull I apologies if they were since its personnal stuff), did you talked with your father about his relationship with the housemaid? How do you think social changes surrounding love/sex relationship might affect this experience? Is it still a valid one? How does it conciliate with all the bad ones? Do you think that your attitude and that of many other might affect the perception of rape and sexual agressions and their numbers?

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02-03-2016, 02:18 PM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 02:07 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @Chas

fantasm is a alternative spelling of phantasm. Here is for your personnal interest.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fantasm

That's not actually a dictionary.

Quote:History is full of story of boys being left as wrecks by abusing older women too you know.

You have some evidence of that?

Quote:In fact history is full of abused teenager by adults in sexual context. This is exactly why we have prohibited those relationship for both sex and frankly, you have made a poor case for you opinion to allow teenager boys to have sex with adult much older than they are. You ask why it matter? That's the point of this conversation, convince that your opinon is valuable else you are both wasting our time. Thank you for sharing your father's experience, its much more valuable than your fantasmfantasy. If you don't mention it allow me to assume it never happenned to you since this is very pertinent to our conversation. I apologies if you thought that assumption came to quickly.

I don't generally share that kind of stuff in public.

Quote:On another note. This is my understanding of what you wrote so far.

1) teenager boys should be authorised to consent to have sex, but girls not because there is more danger for girls than boys.

Nope, not what I've written. Try again by first reading what I actually wrote.

Quote:2) To support this, your own fantasm, your father experience with a housemade almost a 75 years ago (i assume since you mentionned being in your 50's in another thread, correct me if I am wrong).

It was one example from my experience and knowledge to point out that this is not uncommon.

Quote:To avoid further jump to conclusion (which might be hurtfull I apologies if they were since its personnal stuff), did you talked with your father about his relationship with the housemaid?

I can't parse that. What is your question?

Quote:How do you think social changes surrounding love/sex relationship might affect this experience?

Except for housemaids probably being less common, sexual mores are much more open and relaxed today, so I would expect that it happens often.

Quote:Is it still a valid one? How does it conciliate with all the bad ones?
[/quot]

All what bad ones? You haven't yet cited even one.

[quote]
Do you think that your attitude and that of many other might affect the perception of rape and sexual agressions and their numbers?

This is not rape.

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02-03-2016, 02:24 PM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 01:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-03-2016 01:43 PM)morondog Wrote:  Some 15 year old kids can drive perfectly well. Let's licence them all?

We don't license them all because not only aren't all of them qualified, very few are. The risks to other people are too great.
And you didn't answer the question. Drinking Beverage
I thought the answer was implied. Some kids it may be perfectly fine, as it may be perfectly safe for some 15 year olds to drive a car. BUT there is no guarantee that it will always be fine, and a 15 year old kid is not old enough IMO to take responsibility in the sense of live with his actions and their consequences. In the same way that the drinking age and the driving age are regulated, I can't see an issue with the age of consent being regulated, and in *my* opinion 16 or older is fine. You feel that it should be lowered? Fine. But I haven't seen an argument for that.

Quote:The vast majority of sexual predators are men.
And therefore we should ignore the risk from those that are women? Besides which I see no numbers at your link?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-03-2016, 02:31 PM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 02:24 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-03-2016 01:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  We don't license them all because not only aren't all of them qualified, very few are. The risks to other people are too great.
And you didn't answer the question. Drinking Beverage
I thought the answer was implied. Some kids it may be perfectly fine, as it may be perfectly safe for some 15 year olds to drive a car. BUT there is no guarantee that it will always be fine, and a 15 year old kid is not old enough IMO to take responsibility in the sense of live with his actions and their consequences. In the same way that the drinking age and the driving age are regulated, I can't see an issue with the age of consent being regulated, and in *my* opinion 16 or older is fine. You feel that it should be lowered? Fine. But I haven't seen an argument for that.

Because I haven't made that argument. Sixteen is not unreasonable, nor is 17 or 18. My argument is not and has not been that there should be no age of consent, but that the presumption that such a relationship is damaging to a teenage boy is unwarranted. And I believe that it generally, even overwhelmingly, is not.
I base that opinion on my experience and the experiences and opinions of the many men who have ever expressed an opinion to me on this.

Quote:
Quote:The vast majority of sexual predators are men.
And therefore we should ignore the risk from those that are women? Besides which I see no numbers at your link?

You gotta count, you lazy dog. Big Grin

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02-03-2016, 02:33 PM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 12:55 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(02-03-2016 12:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  I am making a consequential argument. There are serious harmful consequences to a teen girl that cannot happen to a teen boy. Note, I said there should be a double standard.


Many jurisdictions have either a lesser charge/penalty or none at all for small differences in age, or both being minors.

The laws against a teen boy being introduced to sex by an older woman are very new.

But that is ages old now, DNA test can prove paternity and responsibility. (I will say a wiki article written by any idiot is not particularly acceptable evidence.)

Wiki articles are a starting point. Note the many references.

Quote:I'll also add this does not support a double standard because a boy can create a baby through the actions of an adult (manipulative or not) woman and either be held accountable or denied access to the child, which is just as damaging as being a pregnant teen girl without support, though the physical health risk is not the same.

I disagree that that is 'just as damaging'.

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02-03-2016, 02:42 PM
RE: teacher arressted for statutory rape
(02-03-2016 12:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-03-2016 12:32 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @Chas

Allow me to use one of you favorites. You believe that teenager boys are having much less chances of trauma and other problems with having sex and love relationship with a women at the very least 8 years older than they are compared to girls based on what evidence or what foundation?

Believe it or not, I was once a teenage boy and I had substantial experience with teenage girls.
So I base this on my knowledge and experience of the human condition, the history of mankind, the history of our society.

When I was 13 years old in 8th grade, I had a really attractive Latin teacher and I would have been ecstatic to have been introduced to sex by her.
While not all my friends felt the same way about her, they all pretty much agreed with the concept or had their own older woman in mind.
No coercion, no manipulation, no dishonesty required - and no downside.

And you don't think that there are teen girls out there that drool over some adult guy they know, without that guy having to mislead them in some way? I remember being a teen as well and some of the girls I knew would have jumped the guys bone (Teacher, Friends Dad, etc.) just because they were attracted to them, not because of the adult trying any coercion. You are only saying this because you are a guy and can't relate to being a female. While I am also a guy, I remember talking to girls that were friends of mine. The ideas about who they wanted desperately to have sex with, were entirely their own and only based on physical appearance.
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