teachers carring guns
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08-02-2016, 09:41 AM
RE: teachers carring guns
Lets have guns IN the schools with the teachers so kids have them available in the school to get to. Seems like a great solution.
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08-02-2016, 09:44 AM
RE: teachers carring guns
(08-02-2016 09:36 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  If I had a kid in the school, I'd feel FAR better knowing some of those guys tote a gun to school -- and know how to use it. ---- Rather than having some twat telling my kid to "Use a book to block the bullets"...

If you send your kid to a school where the teachers and kids are in fear of their lives to the point that teachers carry a gun I think you're close to being criminally insane. Also, you haven't addressed any of the points epronovost raised.

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08-02-2016, 09:58 AM
RE: teachers carring guns
(08-02-2016 09:44 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(08-02-2016 09:36 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  If I had a kid in the school, I'd feel FAR better knowing some of those guys tote a gun to school -- and know how to use it. ---- Rather than having some twat telling my kid to "Use a book to block the bullets"...

If you send your kid to a school where the teachers and kids are in fear of their lives to the point that teachers carry a gun I think you're close to being criminally insane. Also, you haven't addressed any of the points epronovost raised.

There have been school shootings.
Had someone on the scene been armed, the shooters could have been stopped.
No one but the shooter was armed and lots of people died.

It's not about 'living in fear', it's about a rational response to a possible threat.

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08-02-2016, 10:03 AM
RE: teachers carring guns
(08-02-2016 09:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-02-2016 09:44 AM)morondog Wrote:  If you send your kid to a school where the teachers and kids are in fear of their lives to the point that teachers carry a gun I think you're close to being criminally insane. Also, you haven't addressed any of the points epronovost raised.

There have been school shootings.
Had someone on the scene been armed, the shooters could have been stopped.
No one but the shooter was armed and lots of people died.

It's not about 'living in fear', it's about a rational response to a possible threat.

As its been said before Chas if more guns made us safer then we should be the safest country on earth. Its just not the case.

I just don't think the solution is in giving teachers guns. We need to find the root.
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08-02-2016, 10:07 AM
RE: teachers carring guns
So when the first teacher shoots a kid on accident/by mistake who will be blamed.... the teacher or the gun?

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08-02-2016, 10:08 AM
RE: teachers carring guns
(08-02-2016 10:03 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(08-02-2016 09:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  There have been school shootings.
Had someone on the scene been armed, the shooters could have been stopped.
No one but the shooter was armed and lots of people died.

It's not about 'living in fear', it's about a rational response to a possible threat.

As its been said before Chas if more guns made us safer then we should be the safest country on earth. Its just not the case.

That doesn't really apply to schools since there are no guns there until the shooter arrives.

Quote:I just don't think the solution is in giving teachers guns.

I don't think teachers should have guns in the classroom, but there should be someone - principal, vice principal, guard - who is armed.

Quote:We need to find the root.

Which is what I have been advocating since forever.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-02-2016, 10:13 AM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2016 10:18 AM by epronovost.)
RE: teachers carring guns
(08-02-2016 09:36 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You're ignoring the way things have been done in the past (lockdown and wait) -- and the way things are getting done now (storm the building immediately).

Evacuation??? WHERE??? That doesn't happen. They lock the kids in rooms and cower.... Some of these geniuses who thought this up tell the kids to "Use a book to block the bullets" --- I shit you not.....

The BEST solution (and the one rapidly becoming LEO doctrine) seems to be whacking the "lone gunman" as quickly as possible - by the first guy who has a gun. If that's a cop - great -- if it's a teacher -- equally great.....

Maybe every teacher you know has never handled a gun --- but I know SEVERAL who are ex-military or hunters - or just plain gun nuts.. (I run into them frequently at the gun shows -- so I know who they are)...

If I had a kid in the school, I'd feel FAR better knowing some of those guys tote a gun to school -- and know how to use it. ---- Rather than having some twat telling my kid to "Use a book to block the bullets"...

Nobody gives a shit as to how secure YOU feel about your kids at school. In that context, the important person is not you, it's your kid. If you want your kid to be safe, you don't want his/her teacher leaving to «fight bad guys» leaving him in a fucking room alone with 30 other children. In a drill the only ones who are evacuated are those who can do so once the gunman has been contained (at least in a part) and go toward the designated evacuation point where first response units will be waiting for them. Those who cannot escape safely either because they are trapped with the killer or are too close will barricade themselves in their classroom by locking the door and pilling in chairs and tables and covering all windows. Kids are then sent at the back of the room to wait in silence for the all clear. Yes you tell kids to use large book to protect themselves. Is it going to work? absolutly not (unless they are very lucky), but it gives them something to do beside crying and panicing which is exactly what you don't want them to do since silence and calm is mandatory. This is a placebo technique like giving fake responsability to someone in panic to help them out calm themselves.

The LEO doctrines concerns the police and inervention units methods, not the civilian personnel. Any sensible police force will never encourage civilians, even if they have weapons and training, to fight against an armed attacker unless it's absolutly impossible to hide or escape because when they arrive, the situation is always chaotic and they have no clear way to identify who is the real danger and who is trying to stop him. Fighting is the worst case scenario option. You do it when you can't flee and you can't hide. Carriying a weapon only gives you a better chance in the case of the worst situation imaginable.

With that in mind the only useful use of a gun by a teacher in such a situation would be during an attack in which you are forced to barricade yourself and the killer would decide to force his way inside your class room AND would manage to do it before he is stopped by the rushing police. Considering the limited use of the gun, you might prefer to invest in better locks on classroom doors or force the teachers to keep a portable communication device at all time in their room. It's simply more useful.

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08-02-2016, 10:14 AM
RE: teachers carring guns
Are any of you teachers? I know new forum member, Carol is a teacher. Any others? Teaching has become a favorite political tennis ball to be batted from one side of the court to the other. Teachers are now supposed to test for everything instead of teach. Oh, wait. I think this is being changed. Maybe next year they will change it to something else. The year after that politicians will decide that was wrong and change it again. And teachers don't have much say in the matter. They're treated like they're idiots who don't know anything. Will they get funding to reduce the size of classrooms? My husband's classrooms size is around 36. If politicians and the general public wants to make kids safer in schools then actually FUND SCHOOLS. Get rid of some of the administrators. Schools are top heavy, weighed down with administrators. Because teachers don't make enough money they become administrators so they can get out of the classroom.

Now politicians are considering having guns in the classroom? What's the matter with you people! Fund schools, fund mental health, pay teachers.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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08-02-2016, 10:27 AM
RE: teachers carring guns
(08-02-2016 10:14 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Are any of you teachers? I know new forum member, Carol is a teacher. Any others? Teaching has become a favorite political tennis ball to be batted from one side of the court to the other. Teachers are now supposed to test for everything instead of teach. Oh, wait. I think this is being changed. Maybe next year they will change it to something else. The year after that politicians will decide that was wrong and change it again. And teachers don't have much say in the matter. They're treated like they're idiots who don't know anything. Will they get funding to reduce the size of classrooms? My husband's classrooms size is around 36. If politicians and the general public wants to make kids safer in schools then actually FUND SCHOOLS. Get rid of some of the administrators. Schools are top heavy, weighed down with administrators. Because teachers don't make enough money they become administrators so they can get out of the classroom.

Now politicians are considering having guns in the classroom? What's the matter with you people! Fund schools, fund mental health, pay teachers.

Well, if that can help you, I am a high school and college teacher in history and I agree with you assessment.

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08-02-2016, 11:11 AM
RE: teachers carring guns
(08-02-2016 10:27 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(08-02-2016 10:14 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Are any of you teachers? I know new forum member, Carol is a teacher. Any others? Teaching has become a favorite political tennis ball to be batted from one side of the court to the other. Teachers are now supposed to test for everything instead of teach. Oh, wait. I think this is being changed. Maybe next year they will change it to something else. The year after that politicians will decide that was wrong and change it again. And teachers don't have much say in the matter. They're treated like they're idiots who don't know anything. Will they get funding to reduce the size of classrooms? My husband's classrooms size is around 36. If politicians and the general public wants to make kids safer in schools then actually FUND SCHOOLS. Get rid of some of the administrators. Schools are top heavy, weighed down with administrators. Because teachers don't make enough money they become administrators so they can get out of the classroom.

Now politicians are considering having guns in the classroom? What's the matter with you people! Fund schools, fund mental health, pay teachers.

Well, if that can help you, I am a high school and college teacher in history and I agree with you assessment.

Thank you. I should have my husband make a guest appearance here. He's been teaching 22 years and he might have few nuggets of wisdom concerning this matter. Cell phones and electronic gadgets are a nightmare for teachers. Kids use them to cheat on tests so teachers spend an inordinate amount of time using computer programs to track down possible cheating. Teachers having a gun in the class room? Holy shit. This is a nightmare quadrupled. With 30 plus kids in a classroom it would have to be locked up and secured like it's the fucking Hope Diamond to keep kids out of the god damned thing. And sure enough there would be some kid that could override the locking system so that would mean teachers would have to check it several times a day......INSTEAD OF TEACH!

Do people think teachers have nothing else to do but stand around with a gun and watch for killers with guns? Jesus fucking christ.

Facepalm

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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