the God term
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22-04-2013, 04:15 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 04:13 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  The invention and development of computers or any other technology by humans says nothing about the origin or evolution of life.
You are making the tired, old Paley watchmaker argument.
Sorry, just saying what I see.
But you're not seeing the whole picture, just the small points that to you point to a creator.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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22-04-2013, 04:23 PM
RE: the God term
Bump fer Jebus

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-04-2013, 04:45 PM
RE: the God term
Humans use codes and systems because they are limited in faculties, and a common, shared system for similar things makes the system easier to design and manage.

Saying that DNA being code-like implies an intelligent designer, means that you are placing a limitation on that designer by saying that they have some limitation that causes them to prefer the easier method (common DNA) over creating an optimally efficient design from scratch for each species. In other words, if you take commonalities in DNA as being indicative of intelligent design, you are also saying that the designer cannot be god.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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22-04-2013, 04:56 PM
RE: the God term
So let's say for the sake of argument, that some intelligent life force created the universe and designed it to evolve the way it did. Hell, we can even name this force Love. Heart

The question remains, do you accept that humans evolved from the same common ancestors as all other forms of life currently on the planet?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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22-04-2013, 05:06 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 04:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 04:12 PM)childeye Wrote:  Looks pretty intelligent to me.

Then you don't have much knowledge of what actually happens in our biosphere.

You are saying that your god created animals to kill each other in the most gruesome of ways to survive; created reproduction among his creatures that insures most of them die while young; created parasites, microbes, and viruses that maim and kill.

Really?
You've morphed the issue from DNA to a moral sentiment.
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22-04-2013, 05:43 PM (This post was last modified: 22-04-2013 05:49 PM by Chas.)
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 05:06 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 04:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  Then you don't have much knowledge of what actually happens in our biosphere.

You are saying that your god created animals to kill each other in the most gruesome of ways to survive; created reproduction among his creatures that insures most of them die while young; created parasites, microbes, and viruses that maim and kill.

Really?
You've morphed the issue from DNA to a moral sentiment.

No, I am responding to your value judgement that it looks intelligent.

Edit: You are correct - I conflated 'intelligent' with 'ethical'.

However, very little looks designed in the natural world. I stand by my statement that you are not inspecting the natural world closely enough.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-04-2013, 06:21 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 04:56 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  So let's say for the sake of argument, that some intelligent life force created the universe and designed it to evolve the way it did. Hell, we can even name this force Love. Heart

The question remains, do you accept that humans evolved from the same common ancestors as all other forms of life currently on the planet?
First Love is a spiritual connotation while DNA pertains to flesh and plant material. Supposing that energy is common to both that which is physical and spiritual in the forming of life it is plausible that there is a connection, but who knows? When did man appear as what we call a man seems a matter that is currently hotly debated. Some say Homo erectus and Homo ergaster were the first of the hominina to leave Africa, and these species spread through Africa, Asia, and Europe between 1.3 to 1.8 million years ago. I have been skimming the internet and the conclusions drawn as to whether we came from apes is not even clear since some people simply claim we still are apes. So apparrantly I am told that the most recent and definitive studies conclude that all humans came out of Africa approximately 160,000 years ago and that they emigrated first to Australia and New guinea. Other scientists contest this also. Obviously there is disagreement. Did we all evolve from the same primordial soup is therefore not definitive. I personally don't know what to believe, but the most recent out of Africa evidence seems hard to dispute.
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22-04-2013, 06:28 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 05:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 05:06 PM)childeye Wrote:  You've morphed the issue from DNA to a moral sentiment.

No, I am responding to your value judgement that it looks intelligent.

Edit: You are correct - I conflated 'intelligent' with 'ethical'.

However, very little looks designed in the natural world. I stand by my statement that you are not inspecting the natural world closely enough.
I can appreciate your observation of me. I admit I do not pay much attention to these matters pertaining to evolution and no doubt you are better educated about it than myself. The problem is that seldom does science answer anything but rather only brings forth more questions. One thing is discovered and declared as fact and then another is discovered which disavows the first fact etc...
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22-04-2013, 06:38 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 06:21 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 04:56 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  So let's say for the sake of argument, that some intelligent life force created the universe and designed it to evolve the way it did. Hell, we can even name this force Love. Heart

The question remains, do you accept that humans evolved from the same common ancestors as all other forms of life currently on the planet?
First Love is a spiritual connotation while DNA pertains to flesh and plant material. Supposing that energy is common to both that which is physical and spiritual in the forming of life it is plausible that there is a connection, but who knows? When did man appear as what we call a man seems a matter that is currently hotly debated. Some say Homo erectus and Homo ergaster were the first of the hominina to leave Africa, and these species spread through Africa, Asia, and Europe between 1.3 to 1.8 million years ago. I have been skimming the internet and the conclusions drawn as to whether we came from apes is not even clear since some people simply claim we still are apes. So apparrantly I am told that the most recent and definitive studies conclude that all humans came out of Africa approximately 160,000 years ago and that they emigrated first to Australia and New guinea. Other scientists contest this also. Obviously there is disagreement. Did we all evolve from the same primordial soup is therefore not definitive. I personally don't know what to believe, but the most recent out of Africa evidence seems hard to dispute.

Okay, I just wanted to see exactly what your position was before delving into an argument. I see you haven't quite made up your mind. No matter, we'll just move on. Keep looking into it, if your interested. Get back to me if you solidify a decision. Here's a lecture I really enjoyed, this dude explains things pretty well. It's a bit long, so watch it when you have time if you want. Keep in mind he's catholic. Not a True christian, I know. Nevertheless....




But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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22-04-2013, 06:38 PM
RE: the God term
I think its neat how the least scientific times were the most full of love and peace... Like the dark ages... wait..

I really just can't believe that some people can spew so many words and say so little.
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