the God term
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22-04-2013, 08:53 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 08:44 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 08:37 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  You can cuss if you want, I won't tell god. Thumbsup
Okay, I get what you're trying to say. But where does this vanity come from in the first place? Aren't we created in god's image? The debil made me do it? God made him too. Also, I thought the main difference between man and angels is the whole free will thing, which always confused me as to how lucifer was able to so easily defy god. That's probably for a different discussion though.

Do you believe that all who are not True christians will be going to hell for eternity? I'm not sure if we've covered that part of your belief system.
Too... many.... deep.... questions... going.... to.... explode.....TIMEOUT.

Breathe man. Don't be hyperventilating on us.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-04-2013, 09:03 PM
RE: the God term
Jumpin Jesus on a hornytoad

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-04-2013, 09:08 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 09:03 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Jumpin Jesus on a hornytoad

Aw, give the guy moment to try and collect his thoughts. He has actually been able to stick it out this long with his poorly constructed theology. I guess his saving grace (besides jesus on a hornytoad) is that his argument can't be refuted with reason or logic. He can just knock over the pieces, shit on the board and fly away claiming victory. But I give him credit for trying and hanging in there.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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22-04-2013, 09:09 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 09:08 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 09:03 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Jumpin Jesus on a hornytoad

Aw, give the guy moment to try and collect his thoughts. He has actually been able to stick it out this long with his poorly constructed theology. I guess his saving grace (besides jesus on a hornytoad) is that his argument can't be refuted with reason or logic. He can just knock over the pieces, shit on the board and fly away claiming victory. But I give him credit for trying and hanging in there.

That was just a bump to get the thread to show the next page.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-04-2013, 09:11 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 09:09 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 09:08 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Aw, give the guy moment to try and collect his thoughts. He has actually been able to stick it out this long with his poorly constructed theology. I guess his saving grace (besides jesus on a hornytoad) is that his argument can't be refuted with reason or logic. He can just knock over the pieces, shit on the board and fly away claiming victory. But I give him credit for trying and hanging in there.

That was just a bump to get the thread to show the next page.

Ah, gotcha. Good times.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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22-04-2013, 09:30 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 08:29 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 08:19 PM)childeye Wrote:  Please note that I am saying that the course of man is towards self destruction. The ultimate purpose of God is not to create DNA patterns but to use the flesh as a template to show what vanity is and does which is a spiritual matter. Our present existence has a higher purpose then just to eat sleep procreate and die in an endless circle.

Perhaps this makes sense to you in your privileged situation. What about the millions of his beloved creations who experience nothing but agony in their short lives? I would reckon that if they believe in a god, they don't have the luxury of being so contemplative and would form a very different opinion.

Okay, I took five. Sorry. The vanity begins with the devil. He is made with all the highest attributes available except for one thing. He cannot esteem God because he cannot contemplate being anything lesser than the highets station under the Godhead. He in comparison to all other angels is mightier in every sense of the word because of his God given attributes. Beauty, intelligence etc...He grows enamored with himself and as he does so, he begins to treat all others lesser than himself with disdain as though they could be like him if they wanted. At the same time he begins to despise his station under God and secretly desires to be God. This is the vanity that began in heaven.

Enter Adam. Adam is made in God's image and he is pure of heart. But the pureness of his Character is based on faith in His maker. The devil in his vanity desires in his heart to be like God and is discontent. And he resents seeing Adam content in the innocence of his lowly station under God. Satan then tempts mankind by subtly implying that God is a liar and is keeping mankind from being like God even though Adam is already like God. Adam feels distrust for the first time even as he considers the implications. This is where the first false and corrupt image of god was sown into the subconscious of mankind. Upon eating the fruit it is a sealed deal and the corruption of mankind has begun and the vanity of the devil is passed on to mankind. Sin means separation from God and we became estranged from Him. The devil tricked mankind with a lie and our wills have never been free since.
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22-04-2013, 09:33 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 08:52 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  The likely reason you're overwhelmed, Childeye, is because you have not fully thought out your own theology. The last fifty pages or so have the air of having been purely ad-hoc, made up on the spot. It's clear you're out of your depth, and your claim that your "arguments" are too deep for us is laughable. You have nothing to offer, no real argument, no real positions, just hastily constructed and not very well thought out attempts to defend against or deflect arguments that you have no real answer to. You know nothing of science, nothing of history, nothing of philosophy, nothing even of basic logic. You are undereducated and extremely vain, to think that you can argue against people who know far more than you about everything, and still claim that they find you idiotic because you're too "deep".


Get off my lawn. Drinking Beverage
Bring it BRO.
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22-04-2013, 09:37 PM
RE: the God term
From a Christian Forum I am a member of:

Oh you beautiful and Loving people of God.

Thank you for all of your wonderful responses, full of insight and gifted wisdom. I think all of your answers are full of Truth. And before any thought that I am practicing flattery enters the air, I would like to show you why I say that you are all full of Truth and why I posed the two questions.



If you recall I had asked of what am I guilty of? And how does the blood of Jesus cleanse my conscience?



Both of these questions are closely related. For if I do not know what I did wrong, there can be no sincere sorrow. There can be no getting right before God. For if He asked me what I am sorry for and I cannot tell Him, then I am still estranged and my apology is invalid. Nor is there any true repentance. Shall I say I am sorry for disobeying Him? For now we are forced out of the garden and face death. While of course I am sorry, it seems to me that to now say I am sorry for disobeying God, is a shallow and self-serving sorrow. So it is that I have seen that mankind while innocent in the Garden, did fall prey to Satan's cunning and subtle slander. And that in the very moment they considered that God was a god that would lie to us and keep us down so as to lift himself up, their hearts and minds were experiencing distrust for the very first time. And the Loving Image of our Loving and Holy Father was questioned as a falsehood. And so also we read in Romans 1 where men had traded the Truth for a lie and that when we knew God we did not esteem Him as God and likened Him to corruptible man, even though all that was good in us was His Spirit. We thought ourselves wise rather than thanking Him, and in such vanity we became estranged from God. And since men did not esteem God as God, He gave us over to the lusts of our flesh to prove that He was that Spirit that kept us from becoming abominations. Now I know the very seed and root of the black thing that sits upon my conscience. I would beat myself to death if only I could take back the pain of betrayal that I had handed my Loving God who is Jealous for me. I do know what I am sorry for. I am sorry that I ever even considered that He would have anything but my best interests at heart always. I am sorry that I was unthankful in not acknowledging that He is the Spirit of Love that is my only goodness.



Now for the second question, How does the blood of Jesus cleanse my guilty conscience? How does someone elses paying for my sin make my guilt go away?



The answer is a bit more complex. If you recall, Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil which were first sown in the Garden of Eden. Jesus also came to destroy that enmity that was between man and God. For this is the work of the devil as can be seen in many scriptures. Such as Job where on one hand he tempts and the other he accuses. And in Revelations where it is said he makes accusation continually before God, while he is also the temptor of men through the weakness of flesh and their carnal view of goodness. But Satan is a liar and consequently a hypocrite as he questions those things built upon faith. Therefore his kingdom is built upon doubt and as he tempts and accuses, like a bookie he plays both ends against the middle unto his profit while he demeans both man and God in Whose Image we are made.



Now some may not like what I say here, but I believe the law was a trap for Satan and that which is vanity. For we know the law was administered by angels. As the guardian Cherub the devil could have the keys to hell and the power of death. So I believe he usurped the law to accuse and to tempt and that he is a self-righteous legalist. He thinks men are to serve the law rather than the law serve men. And he loathes all those less gifted than himself without any pity for that which is flesh. But when the time was right, God sent His Word made flesh. And because Satan did not comprehend mercy, he did not see his own demise in crucifying this man according to the law. The scriptures that back this up are many. Satan entered into Judas, and the vineyard keepers saw the son and thought they could get his inheritance. Quite telling is that he nailed to the cross the ordinances that were against us and made a spectacle of Principalities and powers. But my favorite is in Revelations where it is said that Jesus was caught up to heaven and men overcame Satan by the blood of the lamb and by their testimony. What I mean to point out is that the cross was meant to defeat Satan and his works. And so indeed it was Satan being the guardian Cherub, who used the law to crucify the innocent, even the very son of God to promote himself. I don't think he saw it coming when Jesus said, "forgive them Father for they know not what they do", and "My God, My God why have you forsaken me?" And after all this was witnessed in heaven, war broke out in heaven and Satan was cast out. So it is that Satan was made a spectacle of and by his own hand he was shown to be a merciless self righteous overzealous prosecutor. Again my point is to say that the cross is what was Satan's demise and also that which is seen as vanity.



Okay. Now when I first heard the Gospel (Christ crucified) I believed that I had seen a Love that transcended all that is comprehensible. And I wondered whether Jesus meant it when he said, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do". It took me most of my life to finally believe it. For I saw that at the beginning of man's fall, it was an innocent mankind that had been duped by a creature far more cunning. I found pity for Adam who like a virgin, he had to lose his innocence to see what it was that he had lost. And I also found that as I believed this, I began to forgive everyone for everything, since to condemn anyone, only revealed that I myself was believing that Adam and Eve as well as all sinners including myself, meant to slander God on purpose. And therefore I myself was still subconsciously to some degree, giving credence to the original assertion that God was an untrustworthy and unholy god. And that also in my blind vanity, I was not seeing that God is our goodness since I faulted others for not being good. And that is my testimony how I was finally able to have a cleansed conscience and find the reason to forgive. For how much I forgive others all that I suffer in this world, is also how sorry I am for ever distrusting the One True and Holy God Who has ever loved me always.Who gave His only son to save me. Whose Spirit is my goodness and compassion. That is how I believe my heart was circumcised by the Spirit that testifies to the Christ. That is how I believe my flesh is crucified on the cross with Jesus. And that is how I believe we overcome Satan by the blood of Christ and by our testimony.



I say this because at the heart of all division, including on this forum, is the spirit of Satan playing the ends against the middle. And it becomes apparrant in our theology when at the end of our reasoning we think we must blame either God or mankind for what happened, when in fact it was neither. It was simply Satan playing both ends against the middle. If we blame either way it is the spirit of Satan with which we do it. So I hope you see, that all of you are right, from whatever unique direction you approach the cross, whatever distance you are away, whatever stage of belief you are in, and I am not patronizing any of you.

Titus 1:15



King James Version (KJV)



15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
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22-04-2013, 09:41 PM
RE: the God term
Scriptures for the two questions:

Well of course there is the original lie wherein we lost faith through:

Genesis 3:4-5. But I would point out that verse 1 one says the serpent was most cunning of all God's creation. I assume you all know Adam and Eve were innocent. I take this to mean mankinds wit was no match for Satan.

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Here Satan subtly implies god is a liar in verse 4. And in verse 5 he implies that god is only lying to keep us down and god knows we could be like him. What a subtle lie since we were already like him. Upon considering this lie we are already doubting Gods intentions toward us which is to lose faith in His righteousness Who is our righteousness.

Romans 1 verse 17. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[a] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[b]
This means God will make known His righteousness which is by faith wherein before we had doubted and this doubt preceded our disobedience.

verse 18. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Now here as Martin Luther taught, Paul is refering to all men. And we know this because in Romans 2:1 he says therefore no one has any excuse to judge for wherein you judge another you condemn yourself.

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Here we see that God is our goodness and this is what is meant by invisible things, our godliness which exists in us because He made us. Also see John 1 the Word was the light of man and the life of man. All that was created was created through the Word, he came into the world but the world knew him not.

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Here we see that when we knew him as in the past we did not esteem Him as God which reiterates above the godliness we take for granted since obviously we were unthankful.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Here we see we thought wisdom belonged to us rather than attributing it to Him. Hence elsewhere in scripture it is said that God has confounded the wise and chose the lowly things so that God alone would be glorified and not men. Also scripture says that Christ has become wisdom to us.

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Here we see that men created their own image of god that was like corruptible man. That is like saying we still believed in the false image presented in the Garden of Eden that was corrupt as in a self-serving god.

Now the destruction of the devil:

Hebrews 2:
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
1 John 3: 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Noe here we see that the devil has the power of death which I take to mean the keys to hell and death which Jesus took from satan after he had been in hell for three days and three nights. Revelations 1:18 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Collossians 2:

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
The law being nailed to the cross and spoiling principalities and powers.

Galatians 3: 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Mark 12:
12 And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.

2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.

3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.

4 And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.

5 And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.

6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.

7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.'

8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.


Revelation 12:
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Luke 22:
2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.

3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.


Revelation 12:
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Matthew 7:
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Titus 1:15

King James Version (KJV)

15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled
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22-04-2013, 09:42 PM
RE: the God term
(22-04-2013 03:04 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 02:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You never heard of Mitochondrial Eve ?
Are you like 85 Childish ?
Is it your second childhood ? Tongue

I don't care for that term "mitochondrial eve". I've had people try to tell me it proves creation. (sighs)

Nope it doesn't say anything about "creation". All it means is that there was a "genetic bottle-neck" through one female at one point in the past. There was another one for males, but much much later, (as I recall). All it says is that AFTER the African woman had evolved, there was a crisis of some sort.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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