the God term
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29-04-2013, 12:56 PM
RE: the God term
This is the thread that never ends,
yes it goes on and on my friends.
Some people started posting here, not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue posting here forever just because
this is the thread that...........................

Chase

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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29-04-2013, 01:04 PM
RE: the God term
(29-04-2013 12:56 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  This is the thread that never ends,
yes it goes on and on my friends.
Some people started posting here, not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue posting here forever just because
this is the thread that...........................

Chase

Er, no thanks, 'e says we already got one.
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29-04-2013, 01:46 PM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2013 02:02 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: the God term

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29-04-2013, 02:37 PM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2013 02:43 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
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29-04-2013, 02:48 PM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2013 02:59 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: the God term

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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29-04-2013, 03:23 PM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2013 03:27 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(29-04-2013 02:48 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(29-04-2013 02:37 PM)childeye Wrote:  This of course is now twenty-twenty hindsight. Numerous times have divisions come because of the Name of Jesus. Whole wars have been fought and are being fought still to this day. My own Mother and Father brought up Roman Catholic have been set at variance with me because of my belief in Jesus. My best friend became my enemy because of him.

I don't exactly know what your point is with this particular scripture. In context Jesus is poining out the hypocrisy of certain traditions and how they undermine the intent of the law.

It seems to me all of these scriptures point to those who are the enemies of God.

I believe God is Love.
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

In what possible way is god even remotely loving?

If god were the embodiment of love wouldn't it simply remove all suffering from the earth and forgive everybody for exercising their "free will" as they see fit?

Or is being completely inhuman to his "enemies" loving? Again one person in hell receives an infinite punishment in a burning lake of fire. If one person goes to hell god commits an infinite act of evil and is therefore infinitely evil.
Whoa fratzero. First off I think you do know love, so peace be unto you. As for the lake of fire I think there is more here than meets the eye. I do not pretend there is not torment there. But how we define that torment is the issue. The fire of God is one that is different than the fire we are familiar with. It usually means the Truth of God. Consequently, the lake of fire may be where those must keep on going through it because they never learn to trust in Love. On that Note, The thought that the Gospel shows a man dying on a cross and forgiving those who crucify him is to me a sure proof of his trustworthiness. I would trust with my life any man that would die for me.

Please note this scripture that you posted in it's context:
Luke 19:26-28

26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

Now figure that this thing that Christ is refering to is Love. This is why it is conceivable to me that people who do not use their Love will lose their Love. This does not conflict with scientific studies that show genes being switched on and off that enable and disable things like compassion for others. Hence we see this also that you posted: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.
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29-04-2013, 03:29 PM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2013 03:59 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: the God term
(29-04-2013 03:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(29-04-2013 02:48 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  In what possible way is god even remotely loving?

If god were the embodiment of love wouldn't it simply remove all suffering from the earth and forgive everybody for exercising their "free will" as they see fit?

Or is being completely inhuman to his "enemies" loving? Again one person in hell receives an infinite punishment in a burning lake of fire. If one person goes to hell god commits an infinite act of evil and is therefore infinitely evil.
Whoa fratzero. First off I think you do know love, so peace be unto you. As for the lake of fire I think there is more here than meets the eye. I do not pretend there is not torment there. But how we define that torment is the issue. The fire of God is one that is different than the fire we are familiar with. It usually means the Truth of God. Consequently, the lake of fire may be where those must keep on going through it because they never learn to trust in Love. On that Note, The thought that the Gospel shows a man dying on a cross and forgiving those who crucify him is to me a sure proof of his trustworthiness. I would trust with my life any man that would die for me.

Please note this scripture that you posted in it's context:
Luke 19:26-28

26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

Now figure that this thing that Christ is refering to is Love. This is why it is conceivable to me that people who do not use their Love will lose their Love. This does not conflict with scientific studies that show genes being switched on and off that enable and disable things like compassion for others.

That's a new can of worms.

If god creates human beings, and through a genetic defect they cannot experience compassion. Then what right does god have to make a being who may cause harm and suffering, and then later condemn him to hellfire?

In the same way if I'm denying god, and he creates me in such a way that he knows I will do so then what right does he have to send me to hell?

According to this line of reasoning creating a person with all the defects of character they have. Makes god responsible for all peoples actions.

Also if you want to play the context game I will argue that in every story, everything that Jesus said was not for any one other than the people he was talking to. It's an error to apply anything he has said to those people to yourself personally.

This is the true context.

In the Parable of the Talents in Luke 19:12-26 and Matthew 25:14-30, the Gospel authors describe a parable that they attribute to Jesus. It involves a nobleman entrusting money to his slaves before he left on a trip. Two slaves used their shares to invest wisely. They doubled the money by the time that their owner returned, and were rewarded. A third slave was afraid of losing his share. He buried it for safekeeping, and was punished.

The parable in Matthew leads into the well known passage in Matthew 25 where Jesus judges the people of all nations, separating them into the "sheep" and "goats" on the basis of their good works or lack of good works, such as: feeding the hungry, giving drinks to the thirsty, supporting the stranger, clothing the naked, and visiting the sick and imprisoned.

The mirrored parable in Luke ends with a verse in which Jesus calls for the murder of those who do not follow him

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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29-04-2013, 04:08 PM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2013 04:13 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(29-04-2013 03:29 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(29-04-2013 03:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  Whoa fratzero. First off I think you do know love, so peace be unto you. As for the lake of fire I think there is more here than meets the eye. I do not pretend there is not torment there. But how we define that torment is the issue. The fire of God is one that is different than the fire we are familiar with. It usually means the Truth of God. Consequently, the lake of fire may be where those must keep on going through it because they never learn to trust in Love. On that Note, The thought that the Gospel shows a man dying on a cross and forgiving those who crucify him is to me a sure proof of his trustworthiness. I would trust with my life any man that would die for me.

Please note this scripture that you posted in it's context:
Luke 19:26-28

26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

Now figure that this thing that Christ is refering to is Love. This is why it is conceivable to me that people who do not use their Love will lose their Love. This does not conflict with scientific studies that show genes being switched on and off that enable and disable things like compassion for others.

That's a new can of worms.

If god creates human beings, and through a genetic defect they cannot experience compassion. Then what right does god have to make a being who may cause harm and suffering, and then later condemn him to hellfire?

In the same way if I'm denying god, and he creates me in such a way that he knows I will do so then what right does he have to send me to hell?

According to this line of reasoning creating a person with all the defects of character they have. Makes god responsible for all peoples actions.
I don't entirely disagree with you. I would first remind you that you are getting into some deep Christian theology here. We are now getting into the destruction of vanity and the creation of the children of God. I suggest you read posts 1115,1119, 1138 and 1139. Then get back to me.
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29-04-2013, 04:13 PM
RE: the God term
(29-04-2013 04:08 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(29-04-2013 03:29 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  That's a new can of worms.

If god creates human beings, and through a genetic defect they cannot experience compassion. Then what right does god have to make a being who may cause harm and suffering, and then later condemn him to hellfire?

In the same way if I'm denying god, and he creates me in such a way that he knows I will do so then what right does he have to send me to hell?

According to this line of reasoning creating a person with all the defects of character they have. Makes god responsible for all peoples actions.
I don't entirely disagree with you. I would first remind you that you are getting into some deep Christian knowledge here. We are dealing with the destruction of vanity here and the creation of the children of God. I suggest you read posts 1138 and 1139. Then get back to me.

I was a christian. That's how I know these things, and how I came to reject this god.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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29-04-2013, 04:19 PM
RE: the God term
(29-04-2013 04:13 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(29-04-2013 04:08 PM)childeye Wrote:  I don't entirely disagree with you. I would first remind you that you are getting into some deep Christian knowledge here. We are dealing with the destruction of vanity here and the creation of the children of God. I suggest you read posts 1138 and 1139. Then get back to me.

I was a christian. That's how I know these things, and how I came to reject this god.
Respectfully your words reflect a misunderstanding of scripture. Let me ask you one question. If I sacrificed my life so you could live would you Love me?
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