the God term
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30-04-2013, 03:57 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 03:51 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 03:49 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Wrong.

Had he suffered the rest of eternity in hell as a replacement for me, it would have been the ultimate sacrifice and an absolute love.
What is hell? Do you even know?

Depends, are we going to quote scripture or be vague and wishy washy for this one?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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30-04-2013, 03:58 PM
RE: the God term
Bump.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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30-04-2013, 04:04 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 03:44 PM)childeye Wrote:  Look , the guy took a crucifixion and experienced all the pain of it. Prior to that he was mocked, beaten, sourged etc...

Your so certain of this fact ? But the evidence is from the Bible. And the provenance of the Bible is not clear, so why do you believe it ?

Oh I forgot. You get these warm fuzzy feelings Dodgy

I say that the above was a legend which probably never happened, and if it did, it was the death of a miserable fake ass prophet who found a good way to make a living for a few years before being barmy enough that the Romans decided he was a threat to the public peace and strung him up. If that was indeed the case I highly doubt that he went to his death all dignified as you would like to believe. It was just another dead criminal left for the crows and as a warning to his followers as to what happens if you claim spiritual power but mess around with temporal authorities.
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30-04-2013, 04:08 PM (This post was last modified: 30-04-2013 04:12 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 03:53 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 03:48 PM)childeye Wrote:  Okay, one time I spanked my kid. It was Love.

No

Spanking vs being infected with diseases, having family killed, riches taken away.....

Lets see here..
Yes I get your point. Spanking my kid or punching a guy for his own good is not a good analogy to Job. Look, all I'm saying is that I believe we will see in the end that it was necessary. The issue is about trust in the midst of doubt. I do know this. A man who is rich and lives in a mansion does not value a single dollar as much as a poor homeless guy hoping to get a single meal. I believe God is going to give us more greater things than we can imagine, but if we started out with those things they would virtually be meaningless to us. So I suffer here in this world believing that being sincerely thankful for the least of things is a profound virtue as compared to constantly bitching about everything I don't have.
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30-04-2013, 04:23 PM
RE: the God term
Anytime someone criticizes me for being an atheist, I'll say god is simply denying me all proof of his existence so that I'll appreciate it more when he finally reveals himself.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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30-04-2013, 04:39 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 03:57 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 03:51 PM)childeye Wrote:  What is hell? Do you even know?

Depends, are we going to quote scripture or be vague and wishy washy for this one?
Even the scriptures are vague on this. Christians debate this constantly. In my view there are some things that are meant to be vague. The facts are that the same greek word for death is in some places translated to hell. The hebrews had a word called sheol for where mankind goes after they die. Supposedly, Satan had the keys to this place and souls were imprisoned there and he would not release them.

Christ freed the prisoners there but he had to come in the flesh and die in order to do so.
Hebrews 2:14
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

The following verse is about God's Christ:
Isaiah 42:6-7

New King James Version (NKJV)

6 “I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles,
7 To open blind eyes,
To bring out prisoners from the prison,Those who sit in darkness from the prison house.

The following is about Satan:
Isaiah 14:12-17

New King James Version (NKJV)
The Fall of Lucifer


12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,[a] son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.


16 “Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17 Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’
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30-04-2013, 04:42 PM (This post was last modified: 30-04-2013 04:52 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 04:08 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 03:53 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  No

Spanking vs being infected with diseases, having family killed, riches taken away.....

Lets see here..
Yes I get your point. Spanking my kid or punching a guy for his own good is not a good analogy to Job. Look, all I'm saying is that I believe we will see in the end that it was necessary. The issue is about trust in the midst of doubt. I do know this. A man who is rich and lives in a mansion does not value a single dollar as much as a poor homeless guy hoping to get a single meal. I believe God is going to give us more greater things than we can imagine, but if we started out with those things they would virtually be meaningless to us. So I suffer here in this world believing that being sincerely thankful for the least of things is a profound virtue as compared to constantly bitching about everything I don't have.

If you bothered to read the Bible, you'd know that the entire debacle with Job was the result of both God and the developing concept of "Satan" betting on the ferocity of Job's religiousness. So, yes, there was definitely a reason. God was gambling.

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30-04-2013, 04:51 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 04:23 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  Anytime someone criticizes me for being an atheist, I'll say god is simply denying me all proof of his existence so that I'll appreciate it more when he finally reveals himself.
A delightful conundrum.
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30-04-2013, 04:54 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 04:42 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 04:08 PM)childeye Wrote:  Yes I get your point. Spanking my kid or punching a guy for his own good is not a good analogy to Job. Look, all I'm saying is that I believe we will see in the end that it was necessary. The issue is about trust in the midst of doubt. I do know this. A man who is rich and lives in a mansion does not value a single dollar as much as a poor homeless guy hoping to get a single meal. I believe God is going to give us more greater things than we can imagine, but if we started out with those things they would virtually be meaningless to us. So I suffer here in this world believing that being sincerely thankful for the least of things is a profound virtue as compared to constantly bitching about everything I don't have.

If you bothered to read the Bible, you'd know that the entire debacle with Job was the result of both God and the developing concept of "Satan" were betting on the ferocity of Job's religiousness. So, yes, there was definitely a reason. God was gambling.
As Einstein said,"God does not throw the dice". Moreover Job was not a religious man.
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30-04-2013, 04:59 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 04:04 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 03:44 PM)childeye Wrote:  Look , the guy took a crucifixion and experienced all the pain of it. Prior to that he was mocked, beaten, sourged etc...

Your so certain of this fact ? But the evidence is from the Bible. And the provenance of the Bible is not clear, so why do you believe it ?

Oh I forgot. You get these warm fuzzy feelings Dodgy

I say that the above was a legend which probably never happened, and if it did, it was the death of a miserable fake ass prophet who found a good way to make a living for a few years before being barmy enough that the Romans decided he was a threat to the public peace and strung him up. If that was indeed the case I highly doubt that he went to his death all dignified as you would like to believe. It was just another dead criminal left for the crows and as a warning to his followers as to what happens if you claim spiritual power but mess around with temporal authorities.
You are missing the fact that Jesus became a Light to the Nations and the revealing of the New Covenant. Just saying.
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