the God term
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30-04-2013, 05:01 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 04:54 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 04:42 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  If you bothered to read the Bible, you'd know that the entire debacle with Job was the result of both God and the developing concept of "Satan" were betting on the ferocity of Job's religiousness. So, yes, there was definitely a reason. God was gambling.
As Einstein said,"God does not throw the dice". Moreover Job was not a religious man.
Book of Job Chapter 1 verse 1
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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30-04-2013, 05:01 PM
RE: the God term
Quote:Even the scriptures are vague on this. Christians debate this constantly. In my view there are some things that are meant to be vague. The facts are that the same greek word for death is in some places translated to hell. The hebrews had a word called sheol for where mankind goes after they die. Supposedly, Satan had the keys to this place and souls were imprisoned there and he would not release them.

You are correct, the scriptures are vague. (Except for the ones that aren't Tongue)

That means we can make up our own definitions, does it not? I think the definition that works the best, even if the most vague, is simply that hell, or death, is seperation from god.

So again, if the christ had given himself as the ultimate sacrifice, he would have been forsaken by his father in heaven for eternity as the replacement for mankind. Not just for three days, not just enduring humiliation, beatings and a human death on a cross.

That is what an ultimate, absolute empathetic sacrifice would be. Giving up something valuable forever in order to satisfy an evil.

And yet this evil comes directly from this god, as part of his plan, his creation.

Do you see yet that every time you can make an argument for god, there is an argument against. And that you have to shift the end game, or redefine terms, or do some mental gymnastics in order to rectify the problem. And then a lot of the time you have to simply say I don't know.

That's because it's all made up superstition. Sounds good at first until it is examined.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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30-04-2013, 05:18 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 05:01 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
Quote:Even the scriptures are vague on this. Christians debate this constantly. In my view there are some things that are meant to be vague. The facts are that the same greek word for death is in some places translated to hell. The hebrews had a word called sheol for where mankind goes after they die. Supposedly, Satan had the keys to this place and souls were imprisoned there and he would not release them.

[quote]You are correct, the scriptures are vague. (Except for the ones that aren't Tongue)

That means we can make up our own definitions, does it not? I think the definition that works the best, even if the most vague, is simply that hell, or death, is seperation from god.

So again, if the christ had given himself as the ultimate sacrifice, he would have been forsaken by his father in heaven for eternity as the replacement for mankind. Not just for three days, not just enduring humiliation, beatings and a human death on a cross.

That is what an ultimate, absolute empathetic sacrifice would be. Giving up something valuable forever in order to satisfy an evil.

And yet this evil comes directly from this god, as part of his plan, his creation.
You just don't seem to believe in happy endings. Moreover if even one soul planted by God was lost then Satan would have overcome God.

Quote:Do you see yet that every time you can make an argument for god, there is an argument against. And that you have to shift the end game, or redefine terms, or do some mental gymnastics in order to rectify the problem. And then a lot of the time you have to simply say I don't know.

That's because it's all made up superstition. Sounds good at first until it is examined.
I see that all things are built upon faith. Consequently for a single Truth there can be a thousands and thousands of lies in our present existence. So of course one can
claim there is no God. One can even claim the earth is flat or square or anything but round. One can claim it is not round simply because it is never perfectly round. One can claim anything they want to but what is true is true regardless of what they claim. I claim God is Love as do many all over the world. But even if everyone claimed the Truth of this doesn't exist, it does not make it so.
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30-04-2013, 05:41 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 05:01 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 04:54 PM)childeye Wrote:  As Einstein said,"God does not throw the dice". Moreover Job was not a religious man.
Book of Job Chapter 1 verse 1
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
The reason why I do not like the term religious applied to Job is because it is incumbent on the works of men. I do not deny the devotion men have for their various objects of worship. But True worship does not happen because of religiosity.
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30-04-2013, 05:49 PM
RE: the God term
Quote:But even if everyone claimed the Truth of this doesn't exist, it does not make it so.

And even if, thanks to Rome, the Jesus myth is believed by the entire world, it doesn't make it true.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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30-04-2013, 05:58 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 05:49 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
Quote:But even if everyone claimed the Truth of this doesn't exist, it does not make it so.

And even if, thanks to Rome, the Jesus myth is believed by the entire world, it doesn't make it true.
I cannot prove to myself where the light ends and the darkness begins. But I can tell which way the Light is shining from. Love is the Light that makes things right.
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30-04-2013, 06:04 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 05:58 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 05:49 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  And even if, thanks to Rome, the Jesus myth is believed by the entire world, it doesn't make it true.
I cannot prove to myself where the light ends and the darkness begins. But I can tell which way the Light is shining from. Love is the Light that makes things right.

http://www.amazon.com/Quan-Analysis-Spec...ectrometer

Here you go now you can prove where the light ends.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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30-04-2013, 06:08 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 04:59 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 04:04 PM)morondog Wrote:  Your so certain of this fact ? But the evidence is from the Bible. And the provenance of the Bible is not clear, so why do you believe it ?

Oh I forgot. You get these warm fuzzy feelings Dodgy

I say that the above was a legend which probably never happened, and if it did, it was the death of a miserable fake ass prophet who found a good way to make a living for a few years before being barmy enough that the Romans decided he was a threat to the public peace and strung him up. If that was indeed the case I highly doubt that he went to his death all dignified as you would like to believe. It was just another dead criminal left for the crows and as a warning to his followers as to what happens if you claim spiritual power but mess around with temporal authorities.
You are missing the fact that Jesus became a Light to the Nations and the revealing of the New Covenant. Just saying.

Actually, he was forgotten and rewrote by Saul of Tarsus. People can even make the case he wasn't talking about the same person born in a manger, but an invented person he hallucinated.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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30-04-2013, 06:12 PM
RE: the God term
(30-04-2013 05:58 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 05:49 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  And even if, thanks to Rome, the Jesus myth is believed by the entire world, it doesn't make it true.
I cannot prove to myself where the light ends and the darkness begins. But I can tell which way the Light is shining from. Love is the Light that makes things right.

Love is a great thing. We should all strive to be more loving. Doesn't have a thing to do with the existence of god.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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30-04-2013, 06:12 PM
RE: the God term
Here's the thing I don't understsnd....if god technically created satan...couldn't he have just decided to vanquish him? It's like the whole destroying all the people, creatures and crap in giant flood. If your god and loving...why do that...why not just redo it...poof...earth is empty...except for whatever god wants....

No, instead we get a myth about a flood and rainbows.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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