the God term
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01-05-2013, 11:05 AM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 10:55 AM)childeye Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 10:32 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Another turn on the merry-go-round.

Soon I'm going back to saying "shoo fly."
I know it seems a waste of your time. I understand your desire to return to shoo-fly. But I disagree with you. In my view you have never truly been open minded or welcoming to discussing the views I have openly expressed. Respectfully, I would be surprised to see you actually dig in to discussing the implications of God is Love rather than just dismissing them as not worthy of your consideration.

Maybe the problem is perspective. You seem to think that MSBB has never contemplated this question. What if she has at length? What if her dismissals of your flat arguments are not a lack of her imagination but rather your presentation?


We have seen many many times your knowledge of biblical scholarship is far less than many on these boards (not an uncommon thing among believers in a recent Pew Poll Atheists were actually tied with Orthodox Jews as knowing the most about religion with Most christians falling to almost half that level of knowledge) There is a real reason for that. When one is falling away from a lifelong belief installed in us by our parents and other trusted officials it has a tendency to make us search out answers and thus we educate ourselves.

This process tends to lead to the disbelief in a christian god because of his unbelievability. Now maybe there is a god and he selects his favorite people and then everyone else he made he throws into unending torment that is not love.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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01-05-2013, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2013 11:34 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 10:33 AM)childeye Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 02:37 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  P.s. Remove these, talking to wall is annoying.

However if you do want to ask some questions I will answer.

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I have no problem discussing the term God as Love without scripture. It is my contention that the atheist is dismissing God as Love because of scripture which they misconstrue. The atheists here have brought up scripture to disprove God and asked me to respond to it. I am simply pointing out how they have misunderstood what is in scripture as per request.

The bible is just one part of non-belief.

The other parts come from the god concept, failure to invoke anything supernatural, knowledge of science, knowledge of critical thinking, biblical history, and many other things.

It's not just the bible.

I'm glad you are trying to make some kind of strange effort to understand atheism.

The atheist out look to religion is basically explained here in depth.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7319

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01-05-2013, 12:04 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 10:55 AM)childeye Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 10:32 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Another turn on the merry-go-round.

Soon I'm going back to saying "shoo fly."
I know it seems a waste of your time. I understand your desire to return to shoo-fly. But I disagree with you. In my view you have never truly been open minded or welcoming to discussing the views I have openly expressed. Respectfully, I would be surprised to see you actually dig in to discussing the implications of God is Love rather than just dismissing them as not worthy of your consideration.

Which view are you talking about? The god is love view? Or what an atheist thinks of god?

The former I've answered truthfully many times. I do not believe it. You've presented nothing factual to make me change my thoughts on this. I have actually tried to be open-minded about your approach, but I fail to find anything redeeming in it. If god is love, then you have to throw out the entire old and new testaments. If god is truly omnipotent and omniscient then why would he give us minds to reason with? Why would he need to be cruel or demand worship? This is not benevolence, this is dictatorship. You want to go the apologist route and say simply god is love...when all the evidence says something greatly different. If god isn't omnipotent or omniscient then how did such a flawed creature ever create everything and what exactly are they worthy of worship?

Even if we ignore such evidence, for your idea of "god is love" to work, you must first prove that god exists. Which honestly, no one can really do but even if you could, then which god is he or she? You or anyone can offer personal "testimony" but really all that amounts to is, "well this horrible happened to me and I believe god got me through." It's like the farmer praising god for the bountiful harvest. So, it was a good year...next year does the same farmer blame god when the crops fail because of drought? Or does the farmer think that he did something wrong?

Probably neither...The farmer today would likely say...well hopefully next year is better. 250 years ago tho...he might be inclined to believe his crops failed because god was angry with him or his neighbor or someone in in their town. He might believe that someone cursed him.

So which god do you follow?

Your answer would be probably "the one true one" Through time everyone believed their 'gods' were the real deal. The idea of god and jesus are simply an amalgamation of all those gods Combined and refined to make them somehow more believable. Even the holidays were mostly pagan in origin. You can keep your holidays but we're changing the reason. Of course people followed...they got to keep their feasts and holidays. They didn't need to believe what they were now being taught as true then...all they needed to understand was that they got to keep their celebrations. The "belief" came later after generations of indoctrination.

You continually keep trying to give divine purpose for basic human emotions. For the record, love isn't an innate emotion. You are taught what love it, based on what you apply the feeling to mean.

Joy, anger are examples of innate emotions. A great example of this are babies. They feel joy when they're held and nurtured. But it doesn't matter who is holding them..or if that person even feels any love toward them. Ask the mom who's been up all night with a crying baby and the kind neighbor who just picks up said child and they drop off to sleep immediately and they say..."Oh it's just a new pair of hands." That baby feels no love toward the neighbor. Maybe that person is just more rested or their heartbeat is more soothing because they're more calm.

The love is taught through experience -- and we apply the word "love" to the experience. When you tell your child that you love them, your teaching them what love is. And there are some who this idea is never grasped. My youngest son, I doubt will ever understand what "love" really is. That's how I started learning about basic emotions and which are taught and which are truly innate.

We can go deeper into this and look at children (specifically female) who were abused and look for men that will abuse them because they confuse "love" with abuse. If it were innate we all just automatically know the difference that you don't beat up people you love.

The latter, I answered on page two of this debate.

Shoo fly


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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01-05-2013, 01:11 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2013 01:15 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
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01-05-2013, 02:12 PM
RE: the God term
Here's some love stuff.



Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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01-05-2013, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2013 03:26 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: the God term

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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01-05-2013, 02:56 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2013 08:53 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: the God term

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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01-05-2013, 03:03 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 10:33 AM)childeye Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 02:37 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  P.s. Remove these, talking to wall is annoying.

However if you do want to ask some questions I will answer.

[Image: 2umO67H.jpg]
I have no problem discussing the term God as Love without scripture. It is my contention that the atheist is dismissing God as Love because of scripture which they misconstrue. The atheists here have brought up scripture to disprove God and asked me to respond to it. I am simply pointing out how they have misunderstood what is in scripture as per request.

You don't get it. The very idea that god is all loving is contradicted by REALITY.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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01-05-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 10:27 AM)childeye Wrote:  
Quote:Finally that jesus came back to life and gets to "rule in heaven" is the exact opposite of a sacrifice.
No it isn't. It's no fun being the ruler as we might presume. The ruler of all is the servant of all. We know Satan desires to be god. Because in his false image of god, god gets to tell everyone else what to do and no one can tell him what to do. He wants power and to be the boss of all bosses. Satan's image of god whom he desires to be sits at the top with everyone else holding him up. The fact is that God is on the bottom holding everyone else up. True Love is always catering to the needs of everyone else. Hence scripture says that the mind of Christ does not consider it wrong to count one's self equal with God but submits it's self as a servant to all.

So God has difficulties? Or he can't be happy, and have fun all the time? That doesn't sound like the all powerful god I keep hearing about...

But of course, if he really is omnipotent, then that little bit of crap you just spewed means nothing... And there really was no sacrifice.

So either there really was no sacrifice, or god is not omnipotent. Which one do you want to go with? Cause thats all this ever was about, what you want to believe.
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01-05-2013, 03:24 PM
the God term
(30-04-2013 05:18 PM)childeye Wrote:  But even if everyone claimed the Truth of this doesn't exist, it does not make it so.

This may be the truest statement you've said so far.

So, my question to you is this: How do we tell what is true from what is untrue?
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