the God term
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01-05-2013, 09:38 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 09:34 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 09:31 PM)childeye Wrote:  Thanks for the caveat "as presented".

I'm Sorry, but I don't agree. If God wanted for His creation to experience Love and the absence of Love, it makes perfect sense that he would create the means to have that experience. But I understand your position. The thing is that my experiences first hand with God surpass yours.

Explain this: My wife and I were driving down the highway when we saw pulled over on the side a van with several people standing on the far side of the van. I said out loud,"I wonder what is happening there?" A voice said inside of me,"These people have a flat tire and have a spare but no jack and they are praying for someone to bring them one". I immediately turned to my wife and said what I had heard. Then she said,"I heard the exact same thing!!!" So I then said, "well that must be us". So I got off on the next exit crossed over came back around got off and got on again and pulled up behind them. I got out and walked towards them and they were a group of people of various ages standing and all looking at me. As I approached I said confidently."God told me you all were praying for someone to bring you a jack". They all began jumping up and down, hands in the air, leaping and shouting thanks with great joy unto God.

Evidence or it didn't happen.
I can only tell you that happened just like I said it. Just because I have no evidence does not mean it didn't happen.
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01-05-2013, 09:41 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 05:50 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 12:04 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
Quote:The love is taught through experience -- and we apply the word "love" to the experience.
Yes I agree that Love is experienced and also taken for granted. It is not taught through the ability to reason and then simulated, but it is learnt what it is through fond experience and sometimes heart wrenching experience. That does not mean that a person doesn't feel anything when they Love.
Quote:
When you tell your child that you love them, your teaching them what love is. And there are some who this idea is never grasped. My youngest son, I doubt will ever understand what "love" really is. That's how I started learning about basic emotions and which are taught and which are truly innate.
Pardon my candor, but your description of Love is cold and calculated. When I tell my children I Love them it is because I mean it. If they don't get my meaning, I will do everything possible to drill it into them. Why? Because Love is TAKEN FOR GRANTED. Do you ask your son if he has any sympathy for others? Do you witness him crying at a sad movie? Do you make him understand how important Love is in a society? Do you show him the loss and suffering of others caused by the callousness of heart?
Okay, I can see the disconnect with semantics by what you say here. When I say Love is innate, I am saying it is the way things should be when everything is progressing as normal. Love is the natural condition wherein the term corruption is applied to. However, our world is becoming unnatural. It is unnatural to want to be beaten by a man to know you are loved and count for something. It is unnatural for a man to beat a woman to see if she will return and thereby know he is loved. These are perversions of what is innate in mankind. They stem from the testing of Love and indicate insecurities.

Quote:shoo fly
You are not going to like what I say here, but I'm going to say it anyway. God has made boundries wherein spiritually we receive in ourselves, including our families, that which we hand out to others. When I said I am rubber and you are glue, I meant it. If you want your son to know Love, you must begin by showing it to others. Your "shoo fly" is always forgiven by me, but it remains bad for you to say it.
I know your atheistic outlook will simply consider this some superstitious scare tactic and be turned off by it. Such also is the perversion of Love. But I am not a fly at your picnic. I am someone who genuinely cares about you. This must be taken in faith. This is what is wrong with your argument. You want your son to know Love and then wonder why Love should be worshipped as God.

No, you have it wrong as usual. I'm not upset that you feel that way, but do try to remember you know nothing about my life. At all. You imply that when I tell my children I love them somehow they don't believe me or think I'm lying to them? That made me feel kinda sad for you -- you really need god to justify love. To imply that I don't love my children because I don't believe in god is ludicrous.

It didn't even cross your seemingly caring mind, to ask why he (my son) doesn't understsnd love? No, you took the snug route and made assumptions. You asked a list of questions, if he cries at sad movies...not really -- he doesn't understsnd what the fuss is about.. Sympathy and empathy aren't rote for him...he doesn't quite understsnd them. He also doesn't understand humor or sarcasm, both i wish he did understand and i feel are a bit more important than love. He understands rules and routine. You can't force him to understand. He knows that when his grandpa died, he won't ever see him again, so we talk about him frequently. He doesn't understsnd why anyone would physically hurt another person -- why people commit murders. He's got a fantastic memory. He can remember the location of a place we ate once 3 years ago and we eat out a lot. He always orders the exact same thing. He likes to travel and see museums. He likes to take pictures but he doesn't like looking at them.

Again you know nothing about me. Until recently I also delivered meals to people who can't leave their homes (I gave up that for personal reasons I won't go into and they want me back). I volunteer at my son's school. I've also worked in homeless shelters and organized food drives as well as school fundraisers. I also volunteer as an advocate for parents with special needs kids -- to help parents understand their rights.

I gave a lecture at my older son's school on tolerance and diversity. I've also lectured on the holocaust. I showed personal pictures I took at Dachau. I discussed my travels through many eastern block countries before the fall of communism. As well as being at the first Oktoberfest after the unified Germany.

You say you care about me...but thats really just superficial, since really you know nothing about me or my life. Like the fact I've been married for almost 25 years. Or the fact that we eat dinner together each night as a family.

I'm tapping this out on my phone so it might just be part one...

In the meantime...

Shoo fly


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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01-05-2013, 09:46 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 09:34 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 09:31 PM)childeye Wrote:  Thanks for the caveat "as presented".

I'm Sorry, but I don't agree. If God wanted for His creation to experience Love and the absence of Love, it makes perfect sense that he would create the means to have that experience. But I understand your position. The thing is that my experiences first hand with God surpass yours.

Explain this: My wife and I were driving down the highway when we saw pulled over on the side a van with several people standing on the far side of the van. I said out loud,"I wonder what is happening there?" A voice said inside of me,"These people have a flat tire and have a spare but no jack and they are praying for someone to bring them one". I immediately turned to my wife and said what I had heard. Then she said,"I heard the exact same thing!!!" So I then said, "well that must be us". So I got off on the next exit crossed over came back around got off and got on again and pulled up behind them. I got out and walked towards them and they were a group of people of various ages standing and all looking at me. As I approached I said confidently."God told me you all were praying for someone to bring you a jack". They all began jumping up and down, hands in the air, leaping and shouting thanks with great joy unto God.

Evidence or it didn't happen.

Also your god is love circular logic is ludicrous.

because god is love because god is love because god is.....

[Image: circular_reasoning_does_not_solve_euthyp...4z1cvn.jpg]
[Image: 400px-Bible_cycle.jpg]
[Image: circular_reasoning_does_not_solve_euthyp...4z1cvn.jpg]


And this one time at band camp... Look we know you have selected incidents where confirmation bias has made you think "Wow, thats god answering a prayer." but the fact of the matter is whenever anything like that is tested in a double blind study it has zero effect on anything. As to you and your wife having the same though that God was talking to you, did you tell that story a lot? Did it start off with just you having a feeling about those people you saw on the roadside and then grow into something more? It's not that uncommon, in fact the more you tell the story the more you believe thats the way it actually happened.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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01-05-2013, 09:47 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 09:20 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Vanity. An inflated sense of pride in oneself.

Who has more vanity, the atheist or the theist?

The atheist comes to terms with reality. The atheist realizes the insignificance of his or her existence amidst the magnitude of the universe. The theist cannot accept the possibility of insignificance, and therefore chooses to delude themselves in order to satisfy this vanity.

Did a god really invent this entire universe, in its natural state, with all of its mystery and hostile grandeur in order to support such a small speck of life on which to cultivate a mass of grossly under-evolved apes?

Only a vain person could think this.

Love is the ultimate absolute? Nay, life is the only absolute we can be sure of. Love isa pleasant side effect of this life. Perhaps it is the greatest effect of life, but it is still only an emotion.

It is fear of uncertainty that prompts man to construct this vanity, in order to persuade away the fearful thought of meaninglessness. It is this fear that will drive men to murder in order to preserve his constitution of purpose. This fear that will cause men to abandon reason in order to ease his confusion.

The confusion of his vanity.

Only when one can submit to the fact that we are alone on this planet, and that no gods are plotting heaven nor hell for our eternal souls can one find himself.

True love is humility, and you, childeye have not shown a thread of such since you began here. I have witnessed no true inquiry nor understanding, only vain attempts at poor reasoning of ancient superstitions.

True self begins with humility, not vanity, not god.
I can only say that the atheistic humility is breathtaking as you have put all others who esteem God as love in their rightful place beneath you.
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01-05-2013, 09:49 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 09:38 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 09:34 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Evidence or it didn't happen.
I can only tell you that happened just like I said it. Just because I have no evidence does not mean it didn't happen.

[Image: CircularReasoning.png]

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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01-05-2013, 09:51 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 09:46 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 09:34 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Evidence or it didn't happen.

Also your god is love circular logic is ludicrous.

because god is love because god is love because god is.....

[Image: circular_reasoning_does_not_solve_euthyp...4z1cvn.jpg]
[Image: 400px-Bible_cycle.jpg]
[Image: circular_reasoning_does_not_solve_euthyp...4z1cvn.jpg]


And this one time at band camp... Look we know you have selected incidents where confirmation bias has made you think "Wow, thats god answering a prayer." but the fact of the matter is whenever anything like that is tested in a double blind study it has zero effect on anything. As to you and your wife having the same though that God was talking to you, did you tell that story a lot? Did it start off with just you having a feeling about those people you saw on the roadside and then grow into something more? It's not that uncommon, in fact the more you tell the story the more you believe thats the way it actually happened.
I have told the story before, of course. I was elated, of course. Nonetheless it happened just like I said and with no embellishments.
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01-05-2013, 09:52 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 09:51 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 09:46 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  And this one time at band camp... Look we know you have selected incidents where confirmation bias has made you think "Wow, thats god answering a prayer." but the fact of the matter is whenever anything like that is tested in a double blind study it has zero effect on anything. As to you and your wife having the same though that God was talking to you, did you tell that story a lot? Did it start off with just you having a feeling about those people you saw on the roadside and then grow into something more? It's not that uncommon, in fact the more you tell the story the more you believe thats the way it actually happened.
I have told the story before, of course. I was elated, of course. Nonetheless it happened just like I said and with no embellishments.
[Image: l.gif]

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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01-05-2013, 09:55 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 09:47 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 09:20 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Vanity. An inflated sense of pride in oneself.

Who has more vanity, the atheist or the theist?

The atheist comes to terms with reality. The atheist realizes the insignificance of his or her existence amidst the magnitude of the universe. The theist cannot accept the possibility of insignificance, and therefore chooses to delude themselves in order to satisfy this vanity.

Did a god really invent this entire universe, in its natural state, with all of its mystery and hostile grandeur in order to support such a small speck of life on which to cultivate a mass of grossly under-evolved apes?

Only a vain person could think this.

Love is the ultimate absolute? Nay, life is the only absolute we can be sure of. Love isa pleasant side effect of this life. Perhaps it is the greatest effect of life, but it is still only an emotion.

It is fear of uncertainty that prompts man to construct this vanity, in order to persuade away the fearful thought of meaninglessness. It is this fear that will drive men to murder in order to preserve his constitution of purpose. This fear that will cause men to abandon reason in order to ease his confusion.

The confusion of his vanity.

Only when one can submit to the fact that we are alone on this planet, and that no gods are plotting heaven nor hell for our eternal souls can one find himself.

True love is humility, and you, childeye have not shown a thread of such since you began here. I have witnessed no true inquiry nor understanding, only vain attempts at poor reasoning of ancient superstitions.

True self begins with humility, not vanity, not god.
I can only say that the atheistic humility is breathtaking as you have put all others who esteem God as love in their rightful place beneath you.

That's some smug projection you have going for you there.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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01-05-2013, 09:57 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 09:46 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 09:34 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Evidence or it didn't happen.

Also your god is love circular logic is ludicrous.

because god is love because god is love because god is.....

[Image: circular_reasoning_does_not_solve_euthyp...4z1cvn.jpg]
[Image: 400px-Bible_cycle.jpg]
[Image: circular_reasoning_does_not_solve_euthyp...4z1cvn.jpg]


And this one time at band camp... Look we know you have selected incidents where confirmation bias has made you think "Wow, thats god answering a prayer." but the fact of the matter is whenever anything like that is tested in a double blind study it has zero effect on anything. As to you and your wife having the same though that God was talking to you, did you tell that story a lot? Did it start off with just you having a feeling about those people you saw on the roadside and then grow into something more? It's not that uncommon, in fact the more you tell the story the more you believe thats the way it actually happened.

Also don't forget the mind can process visual clues before you mentally put together the whole situation. Another thing I've learned because of my son. He doesn't process visual clues well at all (but that is somewhat improving).


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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01-05-2013, 10:04 PM
RE: the God term
(01-05-2013 09:57 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 09:46 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  And this one time at band camp... Look we know you have selected incidents where confirmation bias has made you think "Wow, thats god answering a prayer." but the fact of the matter is whenever anything like that is tested in a double blind study it has zero effect on anything. As to you and your wife having the same though that God was talking to you, did you tell that story a lot? Did it start off with just you having a feeling about those people you saw on the roadside and then grow into something more? It's not that uncommon, in fact the more you tell the story the more you believe thats the way it actually happened.

Also don't forget the mind can process visual clues before you mentally put together the whole situation. Another thing I've learned because of my son. He doesn't process visual clues well at all (but that is somewhat improving).

Autistic? That can be tough for all involved.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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