the God term
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04-05-2013, 10:58 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 11:13 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(04-05-2013 10:41 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
Quote:Therefore, by all means, what do you believe I have ignored? What do you offer?

What have you ignored? Everything we have tried to say to you for going on damn near 200 pages of circular argument that has achieved exactly zilch for either party. Any time an argument of any worth has been presented, the standard reply from you has been, "hmmm, I haven't looked into that, forgive me for not understanding what you mean".

Honest? Sure.

Intellectually honest? Not in the least. Your refusal to even feign interest in who, why, what, and how we come by our position makes it useless to even try to go into any detail, because it's rather obvious that you have no intention of actually thinking about any of it seriously. You have made up your mind that you'd rather put your "love blinders" on and happily go about the rest of your life believing that you're right.

So be it, but it doesn't make anything you've said any more true. I offer a chance to look at the world as it is. Let the evidence speak for itself. If you want to talk about theology, we can, but it has to be honest. I believe it has been demonstrated that it is equally as easy to portray any creator of this universe to be malevolent as it is to posit him as loving.

It's just that easy, because it's all made up in the first place.
I sincerely am doing my best to be honest in every way possible. In defense of my actions on this forum, I have made several statements concerning why atheists believe the way you do using your own words to the best of my understanding of them. Fundamentally, you believe any use of the term God is based on superstition. I have countered by using the terms Love, empathy, as a valid description to depict a Supreme authority in the moral senses. I have pointed out that all of scripture is devoted to this central theme. Quite honestly, you have presented nothing against this central point that does not end in hypocrisy and is therefore invalid as any means of being persuasive. You do not seem to be able to accept that for whatever reason even though you have not denied it. The fact remians that Love is goodness and the atheistic arguments are clearly overeach when concluding all gods\God\god are only fantasy.
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04-05-2013, 11:00 PM
RE: the God term
Truth bump

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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04-05-2013, 11:04 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 11:15 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(04-05-2013 10:44 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 10:39 PM)childeye Wrote:  You seem to be asking me whether I would give up on prayer as a hope of healing and instead be healed by a doctor.
A trick question with a false premise. I've prayed many times for a good doctor.

Assuming that talking to yourself (praying) actually works (an assumption for which there is no evidence), why would you pray for a good doctor rather than simple magical healing?
A fair question. For me personally, I imagine that God sees my needs and deals with them as He sees fit. It seems to me to be a doubtful attitude that would ask God to do things He obviously has already seen as if He is blind to them. However I admit that when I pray for anything, I try to open with something like "If it seems good to you to do such and such". I do not ask for miracles so as to escape the suffering of my cross.
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04-05-2013, 11:06 PM
RE: the God term
Quote:I have countered by using the terms Love, empathy, as a valid description to depict a Supreme authority in the moral senses. I have pointed out that all of scripture is devoted to this central theme. Quite honestly, you have presented nothing against this central point that does not end in hypocrisy and is therefore invalid as any means of being persuasive.

It has been repeatedly explained that these terms you use, love and empathy, have completely rational and natural explanations other than those that you use. You simply choose to ignore them.

Hypocrisy, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

All arguments are invalid as means of persuasion when completely ignored.

This shit is getting old.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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04-05-2013, 11:25 PM
RE: the God term
(04-05-2013 11:04 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 10:44 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Assuming that talking to yourself (praying) actually works (an assumption for which there is no evidence), why would you pray for a good doctor rather than simple magical healing?
A fair question. For me personally, I imagine that God sees my needs and deals with them as He sees fit. It seems to me to be a doubtful attitude that would ask God to do things He obviously has already seen as if He is blind to them. However I admit that when I pray for anything, I try to open with something like "If it seems good to you to do such and such".

If god sees your needs and deals with them in accordance with its whims, what's the point of prayer? Did your god miss something important? That doesn't seem all that deity-like. Did it simply ignore the issue? Hardly a loving deity.

Or is it that you are attempting to put yourself in the drivers seat and relegate god to the all-powerful Navcom? I mean, if your god follows the same traits as pretty much all the others and is pretty much all knowing and powerful, one would assume It has already set every single quark in its course. Which makes it seem that you are attempting to presume to tell god how to do Its job. That's a fairly arrogant approach to deities.
Then again, assuming a deity carters to your needs is also an arrogant assumption.

Besides, prayer seems to me to be little more than a belief based self-reinforcement mechanism anyway.

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05-05-2013, 09:56 AM
RE: the God term
(04-05-2013 09:14 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(03-05-2013 11:22 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Because along side co-operation is greed.
ie: I'll co-operate with you to kill this guy as to better our standing.

This guy has 2, I have 2, you have 2. We could all co-operate and and have two, or me and you could team up and kill him and take his 2 and have 3 each.

childeye: "But then why isn't there only 1 person left standing"

Because if we both have 3 and we attack eachother we are even and so would kill eachother. aka, it's worth more to co-operate then to attack each other.

That's how the world operates on a very basic scale. No God required.
Yes but you've reversed the term co-operate to a sinister end and didn't realize that these two co-operators will never turn their backs on the other. Faith is a vital component to Love and you are only making my point for me.

wtf? No.
Wrong.

The two people left over could hate the shit out of each other.
Faith isn't required. It's a pure economic question with a pure, faith and god free economic answer.

And further, faith doesn't even equal love. You can have the prior without the later.

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05-05-2013, 10:04 AM
RE: the God term
(04-05-2013 11:04 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 10:44 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Assuming that talking to yourself (praying) actually works (an assumption for which there is no evidence), why would you pray for a good doctor rather than simple magical healing?
A fair question. For me personally, I imagine that God sees my needs and deals with them as He sees fit. It seems to me to be a doubtful attitude that would ask God to do things He obviously has already seen as if He is blind to them. However I admit that when I pray for anything, I try to open with something like "If it seems good to you to do such and such". I do not ask for miracles so as to escape the suffering of my cross.

Did your *loving* god "see the needs" of the millions of children who starved to death, and died of cancers during the last few years ?
You are hilarious, and the most selfish self-centered person on the face of the Earth.
You and your Jebus, indeed.
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05-05-2013, 10:11 AM
RE: the God term
183 pages? Wow.

What's the old quote about arguing with an idiot...?

There is no "I" in "team" but there is a broken and mixed up "me."
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05-05-2013, 10:49 AM
RE: the God term
(04-05-2013 09:18 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 06:16 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Maybe he finally shoo'd....

I don't understsnd how many different ways he can keep saying the same thing.
Of course I've been saying the same thing many different ways. Because the term God is meant to mean an absolute not a superstition.

I'm sorry but no. But if that's your attitude then this will be a never ending thread. Only because your argument is supercilious and circular.

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God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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05-05-2013, 10:52 AM
RE: the God term
(05-05-2013 10:11 AM)TheMrBillShow Wrote:  183 pages? Wow.

What's the old quote about arguing with an idiot...?

It's rather sad isn't it?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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