the God term
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05-05-2013, 10:53 AM
RE: the God term
(05-05-2013 10:04 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 11:04 PM)childeye Wrote:  A fair question. For me personally, I imagine that God sees my needs and deals with them as He sees fit. It seems to me to be a doubtful attitude that would ask God to do things He obviously has already seen as if He is blind to them. However I admit that when I pray for anything, I try to open with something like "If it seems good to you to do such and such". I do not ask for miracles so as to escape the suffering of my cross.

Did your *loving* god "see the needs" of the millions of children who starved to death, and died of cancers during the last few years ?
You are hilarious, and the most selfish self-centered person on the face of the Earth.
You and your Jebus, indeed.
Big Grin

I'm sure he'll choose to ignore it or offer some inane idea that most apologists offer..


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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05-05-2013, 11:07 AM
RE: the God term
Thread is constipated again.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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05-05-2013, 11:41 AM
RE: the God term
(04-05-2013 11:06 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
Quote:I have countered by using the terms Love, empathy, as a valid description to depict a Supreme authority in the moral senses. I have pointed out that all of scripture is devoted to this central theme. Quite honestly, you have presented nothing against this central point that does not end in hypocrisy and is therefore invalid as any means of being persuasive.

[quote]It has been repeatedly explained that these terms you use, love and empathy, have completely rational and natural explanations other than those that you use. You simply choose to ignore them.
I have not disagreed with the natural or rational explanations you have given regarding the mechanics of nature and the human mind as pertains to certain stimuli, seratonin, dopamine, DNA, and chemistry. The reason it appears I am ignoring these issues is because I already know all these things.

I am interested in the spiritual aspects of people and why people behave the way they do. I am quite certain their spiritual makeup has everything to do with what they believe to be true. Faith is the issue here and to where it is applied.

Therefore your explanations are more seen as a means to defend a certain prejudice against the term God which you conflate with religion. This inability to disengage from this practice is clearly a result of the historical evidence that has shown the consequences of mankinds repeated attempts to politicize the terms God\god\gods. Your signature sentiment of which I read everyday is a clear product of this phenomenon. False gods made the atheist.

Quote:Hypocrisy, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
It means doing to others whay you would not done to yourself. It is the only means of ascertaining moral Truth to the honest soul. I think you would agree to this.

Quote:All arguments are invalid as means of persuasion when completely ignored.
This shit is getting old.
Of course you are right, which righteousness should be equally applied to yourself if you have any desire to not be a hypocrite. As I said, I have not ignored your arguments. Nor will you ever persuade me that Love is not the Supreme and moral authority, nor that the Christ is an example of hatred and malevolence.

If you wish to disengage from any further discourse on the subject, that is your prerogative. I have loved all of you the way I would want to be loved. I would want to be spoken to with all forthrightness for the sake of correction, particularly if I am blind to my own hypocrisy and prejudice. Any man or woman who had the courage and empathy to do so, I would call my friend.
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05-05-2013, 11:43 AM
RE: the God term
(04-05-2013 10:58 PM)childeye Wrote:  I sincerely am doing my best to be honest in every way possible. In defense of my actions on this forum, I have made several statements concerning why atheists believe the way you do using your own words to the best of my understanding of them. Fundamentally, you believe any use of the term God is based on superstition. I have countered by using the terms Love, empathy, as a valid description to depict a Supreme authority in the moral senses. I have pointed out that all of scripture is devoted to this central theme. Quite honestly, you have presented nothing against this central point that does not end in hypocrisy and is therefore invalid as any means of being persuasive. You do not seem to be able to accept that for whatever reason even though you have not denied it. The fact remians that Love is goodness and the atheistic arguments are clearly overeach when concluding all gods\God\god are only fantasy.

I don't doubt the sincerity of your belief. But your "belief" lacks ration -- we have consistently explained why the god of the bible is simply myth. A reselling of older myths, repackaged for consumption by tired, indoctrinated masses. We are social creatures, festivals, parties and celebrations are important to people. When making the switch from poly to monotheism, this is why the festivals all remained. As I'm sure I said earlier, belief then wasn't required that happened generations later after indoctrination. I think (maybe Bucky can help) the reasons Catholics still have mass daily is because of the idea of the pagan gods (Jupiter?) requiring some form of daily worship...I think Constantine simply changed the idea or reason behind it but kept the services. Again...things will stay the same...but we worship this now.

I might as well believe in the flying spaghetti monster.

The ideas you claim to be absolute simply aren't. The idea of god being nice or loving is rather new, modern, repackaging of god that's happen chiefly due to the 1960s and the people of that generation wanting a touchy feely god to go along wirh their touchy feely ideals. Although it began earlier, but began to take a stronger hold as the movement increased. Many evangelical types rely on the idea, because it draws in people and add a few confirmation bias stories...That was around the same time people began singing Beatles songs in mass. The priests would be called "Dan" or "Bob" instead of the generic 'Father'. It was simply a rebranding. Like a bunch of ad executives got together and said god needs an image makeover.

A good salesman can sell ice to an eskimo, but a great sales man will sell him an ice machine and convince him that he simply can't live without it. The god peddlers are just better salesmen.

Shoo fly


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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05-05-2013, 12:04 PM
RE: the God term
Quote: Nor will you ever persuade me that Love is not the Supreme and moral authority

And that's fine with me. Your notion of love as an absolute is commendable as a personal philosophy. However, as a rational proof of a supreme god, it is simply nonsensical and rather silly.

I don't mind dancing with you, old man. It's just that you keep stepping on my toes.

Quote:Therefore your explanations are more seen as a means to defend a certain prejudice against the term God which you conflate with religion. This inability to disengage from this practice is clearly a result of the historical evidence that has shown the consequences of mankinds repeated attempts to politicize the terms God\god\gods. Your signature sentiment of which I read everyday is a clear product of this phenomenon. False gods made the atheist.

You are correct, the fact that man's concepts of god have all been false has made the atheist. Your version is no different. You keep insisting that I conflate god with religion. This is a straw man and I don't appreciate it. Never mind the fact that you continually go to the bible, a religious book, to back up your claims.

Jesus himself claimed adherence to the Jewish religion. If anyone is having trouble conflating ideas, it's you.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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05-05-2013, 12:21 PM
RE: the God term
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05-05-2013, 12:27 PM
RE: the God term
(05-05-2013 11:43 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 10:58 PM)childeye Wrote:  I sincerely am doing my best to be honest in every way possible. In defense of my actions on this forum, I have made several statements concerning why atheists believe the way you do using your own words to the best of my understanding of them. Fundamentally, you believe any use of the term God is based on superstition. I have countered by using the terms Love, empathy, as a valid description to depict a Supreme authority in the moral senses. I have pointed out that all of scripture is devoted to this central theme. Quite honestly, you have presented nothing against this central point that does not end in hypocrisy and is therefore invalid as any means of being persuasive. You do not seem to be able to accept that for whatever reason even though you have not denied it. The fact remians that Love is goodness and the atheistic arguments are clearly overeach when concluding all gods\God\god are only fantasy.

I don't doubt the sincerity of your belief. But your "belief" lacks ration -- we have consistently explained why the god of the bible is simply myth. A reselling of older myths, repackaged for consumption by tired, indoctrinated masses. We are social creatures, festivals, parties and celebrations are important to people. When making the switch from poly to monotheism, this is why the festivals all remained. As I'm sure I said earlier, belief then wasn't required that happened generations later after indoctrination. I think (maybe Bucky can help) the reasons Catholics still have mass daily is because of the idea of the pagan gods (Jupiter?) requiring some form of daily worship...I think Constantine simply changed the idea or reason behind it but kept the services. Again...things will stay the same...but we worship this now.

I might as well believe in the flying spaghetti monster.

The ideas you claim to be absolute simply aren't. The idea of god being nice or loving is rather new, modern, repackaging of god that's happen chiefly due to the 1960s and the people of that generation wanting a touchy feely god to go along wirh their touchy feely ideals. Although it began earlier, but began to take a stronger hold as the movement increased. Many evangelical types rely on the idea, because it draws in people and add a few confirmation bias stories...That was around the same time people began singing Beatles songs in mass. The priests would be called "Dan" or "Bob" instead of the generic 'Father'. It was simply a rebranding. Like a bunch of ad executives got together and said god needs an image makeover.

A good salesman can sell ice to an eskimo, but a great sales man will sell him an ice machine and convince him that he simply can't live without it. The god peddlers are just better salesmen.

Shoo fly
All of this you say and yet it remains true as ever that we all need Love. As the beatles would sing,"Let it be".
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05-05-2013, 12:37 PM
RE: the God term
Is it possible that Jesus Christ was a homosexual?

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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05-05-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: the God term
(05-05-2013 12:37 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Is it possible that Jesus Christ was a homosexual?

Through Christ, all things are possible. Angel

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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05-05-2013, 12:54 PM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2013 01:09 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(05-05-2013 12:04 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
Quote: Nor will you ever persuade me that Love is not the Supreme and moral authority
[quote]
And that's fine with me. Your notion of love as an absolute is commendable as a personal philosophy. However, as a rational proof of a supreme god, it is simply nonsensical and rather silly.
Whether you realize it or not, it seems to me a contradiction to say something is both commendable and silly. You seem to be saying it is good for me but noy good for anyone else. Again this is not my personal philosophy nor a notion of sorts. It has been scientifically proven that Love is real and is a fundamental requirement for basic social health and welfare.

Quote:I don't mind dancing with you, old man. It's just that you keep stepping on my toes.
I think the problem is we're both trying to lead. But I was born stepping on people's toes and when I step off, I step on someone elses. We all need one Truth that all men can agree upon in earnest and not as a superstition.

Quote:Therefore your explanations are more seen as a means to defend a certain prejudice against the term God which you conflate with religion. This inability to disengage from this practice is clearly a result of the historical evidence that has shown the consequences of mankinds repeated attempts to politicize the terms God\god\gods. Your signature sentiment of which I read everyday is a clear product of this phenomenon. False gods made the atheist.

Quote:You are correct, the fact that man's concepts of god have all been false has made the atheist.
Yes, but the mere fact that men have politicized God is only proof that we sholud not do so. God should not be blamed. To declare God taboo is only politicizing god once again.

Quote: Your version is no different. You keep insisting that I conflate god with religion. This is a straw man and I don't appreciate it. Never mind the fact that you continually go to the bible, a religious book, to back up your claims.
Respectfuly, Here you have said one thing I wish to correct. This is not my version of God. I have repeatedly claimed it is God's version of Himself. The fact that scripture foretold the coming of this work of God is not my doing but His. You don't like my saying you conflate god with religion and create a straw man. I'm sorry, but this is central to your prejudice towards me and all that believe in God as Love as opposed to god as superstition.

Quote:Jesus himself claimed adherence to the Jewish religion. If anyone is having trouble conflating ideas, it's you.
Yes, Jesus walked in fulfillment of that which was the letter but through the Spirit as in just being himself. The main point is that religion killed the very thing it was supposed to be representing.
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