the God term
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09-05-2013, 07:09 PM
RE: the God term
(09-05-2013 07:06 PM)TheMrBillShow Wrote:  So, I'm trying to figure out how to generate some "action" with this thread since the actual matter being discussed seems to be a rather circular and meandering affair. How can we wager on this thread?

- number of posts by a certain date?
- date on which thread drops to 2nd page?
- date on which there is no reply for, say 10 days?
- date when childeye reveals himself to actually be Tony Clifton?

I'm sure there are many other possibilities.

I'd say we hit 250 by monday morning.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-05-2013, 07:18 PM
RE: the God term
(09-05-2013 07:06 PM)TheMrBillShow Wrote:  So, I'm trying to figure out how to generate some "action" with this thread since the actual matter being discussed seems to be a rather circular and meandering affair. How can we wager on this thread?

- number of posts by a certain date?
- date on which thread drops to 2nd page?
- date on which there is no reply for, say 10 days?
- date when childeye reveals himself to actually be Tony Clifton?

I'm sure there are many other possibilities.

Ce will hang on until everyone agrees with him -- nothing less is acceptable. He wont simply agree to disagee -- his choice. So the thread rages on. I'd say the battle, but Ce lost that at post number 2.


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Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
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but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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09-05-2013, 08:27 PM
RE: the God term
Quote:Your perspective of the Truth and mine are unique and differing subjective views. The Truth itself is not subjective. Whether I change your mind or not is irrelative. I believe or at least hope everyone will come to know the Truth eventually.

I misspoke, you are technically correct. There are facts out there that, by definition, are the truth, and they are not subjective. However I still see no reason to conclude that your knowledge claims constitute the truth.

Quote: It requires some faith and humility to get this.

Read it, got it. Didn't seem to require any faith.

Quote: All binary terms reverse meanings depending upon whether you serve the flesh or the spirit. Therefore, what is "success" to the carnal mind, such as riches and fame, are "failure" to the spiritual mind. One guy thinks it's "better" to hand the shit end of the stick to the other guy, the other thinks it's "better" not to. Are you following me here?
Quote: I hope this all helps you see how I define all binary terms in their true meanings, as opposed to their false meanings all dependent upon which direction they are heading relative to the Truth.

This is actually an interesting way of making an argument. As long as you stay consistent with this baloney, it doesn't matter what rational argument we can give you, if it doesn't align with believing in god then you can claim it is in ignorance, vanity and hypocrisy.

Quote: Meanwhile the man who heads towards Truth and out of ignorance is humble, honest and more altruistic in his love and regard for others.

I found it very interesting to note that from the very moment I finally let go of any reason to hold a vision of god necessary my worldview began to change. I found the realization that we are alone on this planet, and very mortal with no promised afterlife very humbling. My view of my fellow human beings changed.

I've always considered myself a pretty nice guy, and I'm pretty sure my friends do to. But my sense of compassion and empathy for others, especially others that I did not even know, grew significantly. I felt compelled to give of myself more than I ever had as a christian.

I'm not sure how you'd interpret my stepping "away from the light" and into darkness as a catalyst for what you'd call love.

But you are at least getting somewhere with the conversation.

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
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09-05-2013, 08:39 PM
RE: the God term
(09-05-2013 08:27 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I found it very interesting to note that from the very moment I finally let go of any reason to hold a vision of god necessary my worldview began to change. I found the realization that we are alone on this planet, and very mortal with no promised afterlife very humbling. My view of my fellow human beings changed.

I've always considered myself a pretty nice guy, and I'm pretty sure my friends do to. But my sense of compassion and empathy for others, especially others that I did not even know, grew significantly. I felt compelled to give of myself more than I ever had as a christian.

Interesting, the same thing happened to me. Could this greater compassion and empathy come from knowing that there is no referee out there after the game is over to make thing "right"?

In Spanish there is a common response when an act of generosity is given to you and you can't or won't reply in kind, the phrase is "que Dios te lo page", which means "may God repay you". If you walk around thinking that the scales will be balanced in an afterlife your actions here lose much of their urgency and meaning, that's my take. God will make it right, right?

“I suppose our capacity for self-delusion is boundless."
― John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley: In Search of America
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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09-05-2013, 08:59 PM
RE: the God term
(09-05-2013 08:39 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(09-05-2013 08:27 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I found it very interesting to note that from the very moment I finally let go of any reason to hold a vision of god necessary my worldview began to change. I found the realization that we are alone on this planet, and very mortal with no promised afterlife very humbling. My view of my fellow human beings changed.

I've always considered myself a pretty nice guy, and I'm pretty sure my friends do to. But my sense of compassion and empathy for others, especially others that I did not even know, grew significantly. I felt compelled to give of myself more than I ever had as a christian.

Interesting, the same thing happened to me. Could this greater compassion and empathy come from knowing that there is no referee out there after the game is over to make thing "right"?

In Spanish there is a common response when an act of generosity is given to you and you can't or won't reply in kind, the phrase is "que Dios te lo page", which means "may God repay you". If you walk around thinking that the scales will be balanced in an afterlife your actions here lose much of their urgency and meaning, that's my take. God will make it right, right?

This is what christianity was designed to do. In it's inception under Saul of Tarsus the baseline of the cult was the fact that slights in this world didn't matter cause everything would be better in the afterlife. It makes the sheep easy to herd when they are promised that in the hereafter all the wrongs will be righted the poor shall be rich and the meek shall be strong. Give your money and control to the leaders of the congregation (this of course being before the invention of the church) and all will be well after you depart this mortal coil. Don't question the rules or you won't get in to Heaven and will forfeit your rewards. Don't think just believe and all will be well. Close your eyes and ears to the world for this is not the life you need be concerned with.

That was the most evil thing Saul did, among a very long list of evil deeds. To think that if the basis for the new Roman official religion had been based off of the Gnostics instead of Paulianity none of that drivel would have been in the bible. Think of all the evil that has been produced by that idea. All of the wars, the deaths the ignorance caused by this idea that thinking is wrong and blind obedience is the only path to happiness.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-05-2013, 09:06 PM
RE: the God term
(09-05-2013 08:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-05-2013 08:39 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Interesting, the same thing happened to me. Could this greater compassion and empathy come from knowing that there is no referee out there after the game is over to make thing "right"?

In Spanish there is a common response when an act of generosity is given to you and you can't or won't reply in kind, the phrase is "que Dios te lo page", which means "may God repay you". If you walk around thinking that the scales will be balanced in an afterlife your actions here lose much of their urgency and meaning, that's my take. God will make it right, right?

This is what christianity was designed to do. In it's inception under Saul of Tarsus the baseline of the cult was the fact that slights in this world didn't matter cause everything would be better in the afterlife. It makes the sheep easy to herd when they are promised that in the hereafter all the wrongs will be righted the poor shall be rich and the meek shall be strong. Give your money and control to the leaders of the congregation (this of course being before the invention of the church) and all will be well after you depart this mortal coil. Don't question the rules or you won't get in to Heaven and will forfeit your rewards. Don't think just believe and all will be well. Close your eyes and ears to the world for this is not the life you need be concerned with.

That was the most evil thing Saul did, among a very long list of evil deeds. To think that if the basis for the new Roman official religion had been based off of the Gnostics instead of Paulianity none of that drivel would have been in the bible. Think of all the evil that has been produced by that idea. All of the wars, the deaths the ignorance caused by this idea that thinking is wrong and blind obedience is the only path to happiness.

Aha! I have caught you in your hypocritical reasoning! Tongue

Remember that the only way to end blindness is through obedience to the light! It all makes sense now! Childeye needs to take a cue from egor and write his own gospel.

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
― نجيب محفوظ, Sugar Street
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09-05-2013, 09:14 PM
RE: the God term
tried clever bump, was too soon. Weeping

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
― نجيب محفوظ, Sugar Street
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10-05-2013, 05:21 AM
RE: the God term
Time to just stop posting in this thread. It became pointless quite some time ago.Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-05-2013, 06:24 AM
RE: the God term
(09-05-2013 08:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-05-2013 08:39 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Interesting, the same thing happened to me. Could this greater compassion and empathy come from knowing that there is no referee out there after the game is over to make thing "right"?

In Spanish there is a common response when an act of generosity is given to you and you can't or won't reply in kind, the phrase is "que Dios te lo page", which means "may God repay you". If you walk around thinking that the scales will be balanced in an afterlife your actions here lose much of their urgency and meaning, that's my take. God will make it right, right?

This is what christianity was designed to do. In it's inception under Saul of Tarsus the baseline of the cult was the fact that slights in this world didn't matter cause everything would be better in the afterlife. It makes the sheep easy to herd when they are promised that in the hereafter all the wrongs will be righted the poor shall be rich and the meek shall be strong. Give your money and control to the leaders of the congregation (this of course being before the invention of the church) and all will be well after you depart this mortal coil. Don't question the rules or you won't get in to Heaven and will forfeit your rewards. Don't think just believe and all will be well. Close your eyes and ears to the world for this is not the life you need be concerned with.

That was the most evil thing Saul did, among a very long list of evil deeds. To think that if the basis for the new Roman official religion had been based off of the Gnostics instead of Paulianity none of that drivel would have been in the bible. Think of all the evil that has been produced by that idea. All of the wars, the deaths the ignorance caused by this idea that thinking is wrong and blind obedience is the only path to happiness.

Yup, that's what I meant. BTW if you send me a small donation of, say, $10,000 I'll pray to God so that He repays you ten-fold in Heaven Angel

“I suppose our capacity for self-delusion is boundless."
― John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley: In Search of America
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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10-05-2013, 08:10 AM
RE: the God term
(09-05-2013 01:43 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(08-05-2013 10:22 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Question everything?

Okay then.

How is it that, considering the large number of sects based on the Bibal, a person can know they are using the correct interpretation and translation of the bibal?

In fact, how can this hypothetical person be sure he/she is even using to correct holy book to begin with?

I would prefer an answer which does not begin with the assumption that your interpretation of your translation of your holy book is the correct one. (things of the "the lord tells you" ilk start with such an assumption, though perhaps unconsciously, I will not view it as a sound response.)
I never came to know Christ because I understood the bible or searched the bible. The bible helped confirm my experience and increase my convictions.

However, I can appreciate your sentiments and they are honest, fair and forthright. Therefore what I would say to you, is that I am not very acquainted with the Koran or Quran, so I wouldn't comment on the differences between the bible and the Koran. Also it should be noted that if God exists as God, he exists apart from the bible or any inspired writings about Him. The bible is not a way to God. It is testimony about Him.

If God is the Ceator, then His fingerprints are in the creation itself including ourselves. I would say that the best evidence that the bible contains testimony of real experiences with the real God are the words of the Christ. I believe that inside each person is the ability to know right from wrong which is seen in the moral context of how we treat our fellow man. This ability is what I see as one aspect of the fingerprints of our Creator. Here you must consider what I am going to say. The scriptures talk about the Word of God. The Word of God that the scriptures are refering to, is an attribute of God, the ability to know right from wrong.

Jesus is that Word come in the flesh according to scripture. So, the way I know Jesus is speaking the Truth is that all his words agree with that Word of God in my own heart.

While I do appreciate your taking the time to try to answer my queries, I do not feel you answered my question in a manner without predisposition.

Your wording implies that you start off with the conclusion that Jesus is/was a god and that the bible is correct, an assumption I requested be avoided by any whom attempted to answer me, this implication is evidenced by your final sentences, which seem to say "Jesus acted like he did in his book." & "I know Jesus is correct because he acted like he did in his book" which of course is a pointless statement, considering he only shows up half way through God's book, coming after what can only be described as a blood thirsty monster who revels in the mass graves of its commanded and caused victims. And to my understanding, Jesus is only a minor character improvement.

As I find your answer, while apparently sincere, inadequate, I will ask again:

How can a person be sure that their interpretation of their sect of their holy book is the correct one?

Or rather: How could a totally thus far unconvinced sceptic such as myself, be sure what interpretation of what sect of what holy book is the right one to follow? Given the immense numbers of sects, interpretations and the holy books/teachings and the low collective probability of any of them being correct.

I would again request that the respondent be unbiased and not answer with their own pre-suppositions, this request naturally extends to all takers.

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