the God term
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10-05-2013, 02:22 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2013 02:57 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: the God term
(10-05-2013 12:43 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(10-05-2013 12:26 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Oh wow...that's a huge button issue for me...I hate it when people play little games like that. It's not just Christians who do that...but damn if they don't do it a lot.
At the heart of my post 2136 is the belief that Love is Good and this is the Absolute Truth that can live in all men where men can agree to agree. This is not a game to me. I'm not trying to push anyone's buttons. Just speaking the Truth as best and forthrightly as possible.

Smartass

Lets say something out there exists. It's a being who can travel through dimensions and seems to be able to control all matter, energy, space and time.

It would seem like a god, but not really be one. It would have all the imperfections that a sentient being would. Emotions, feelings, bad judgements etc.

All we would know about it would be what it communicated, and what it's actions told us about it.

From a human point of view this type of being or beings would be god like. How then could we trust it?

The short answer is that we can't.

Instead the intelligent thing to do is to read it's works. Make judgements based on that and see what the nature of this thing is.

It's very possible that this being is using love as a drug to mislead the human race. The reason for this could range from perceived fear that the human race might become a danger to itself, to bordem.

So then it becomes the most important thing to investigate religions, the after life, and other claims to see whether or not these things are true.

Atheists have no evidence for these things and reject them until adequate proof can be provided, tested, and verified.

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10-05-2013, 02:46 PM
RE: the God term
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10-05-2013, 03:00 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2013 03:19 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
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10-05-2013, 03:09 PM
RE: the God term
(10-05-2013 02:22 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(10-05-2013 12:43 PM)childeye Wrote:  At the heart of my post 2136 is the belief that Love is Good and this is the Absolute Truth that can live in all men where men can agree to agree. This is not a game to me. I'm not trying to push anyone's buttons. Just speaking the Truth as best and forthrightly as possible.

Smartass

Lets say something out there exists. It's a being who can travel through dimensions and seems to be able to control all matter, energy, space and time.

It would seem like a god, but not really be one. It would have all the imperfections that a sentient being would. Emotions, feelings, bad judgements etc.

All we would know about it would be what it communicated, and what it's actions told us about it.

From a human point of view this type of being or beings would be god like. How then could we trust it?

The short answer is that we can't.

Instead the intelligent thing to do is to read it's works. Make judgements based on that and see what the nature of this thing is.

It's very possible that this being is using love as a drug to mislead the human race. The reason for this could range from perceived fear that the human race might become a danger to itself, to bordem.

So then it becomes the most important thing to investigate religions, the after life, and other claims to see whether or not these things are true.

Atheists have no evidence for these things and reject them until adequate proof can be provided, tested, and verified.
Your proposal is valuable as a tool to arrive at so obvious a conclusion. That we would be at the mercy of any such being. We would therefore have no viable choice but to trust.
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10-05-2013, 03:17 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2013 03:42 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: the God term
(10-05-2013 01:51 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(10-05-2013 12:23 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(10-05-2013 11:04 AM)childeye Wrote:  :
Also it should be noted that if God exists as God, he exists apart from the bible or any inspired writings about Him.

Quote:Then how do you know what you read is real?
Quote:I experienced reality before I read about it. I know what is real.

No, it's what you *think* is real.

Quote: I would say the bible is basically hyperbole. You said numeruous times the bible is true -- and you've actually gone out of your way to prove so.
Respectfully, perhaps you simply misinterpret the bible? It happens all the time. That's why there are sects in my view.

I think the reason there are different sects or even religions are because people become bored with their old image of god and need to remake it into something new, fresh or more interesting -- like Joesph smith and Moromism. Or people became disgruntled with their own dogma, and wished to create a new "truer" at least in their view, dogma. Martin Luther did this. a few have done it for both reasons.

Quote:I am quite convinced the god of the bible doesn't exist and never did. I'm atheist in that regard -- and it goes beyond simply dismissing it all as superstition.
Quote:Pardon my if i misconstrue what you say, but this statement puzzles me. It sounds like you are saying that the God of the bible doesn't exist yet you do not count it superstition.


Yes. My disbelief, if you like, goes much deeper than dismissing the bible as simply superstition.

Quote: I do understsnd why the ray comforts of the world "need" for god to exist. I think the reason is probably similar to your own. I think you want to believe that your life has purpose and without god to you, nothing makes sense.

Quote:Yes it is true, knowing someone at the top knows what they are doing is security to me. I don't see why that is any different for anybody else.

I don't require a fuzzy blanket. In fact, I find it greatly comforting that there isn't one. It makes me stronger and more appreciative to what I've accomplished. I don't require a god or eternal reward or punishment to make me a better person. All the power to change, alter, learn and grow lies within me.

Quote:I also think the reason you stay here is because we perplex you. How can we find purpose and meaning in life without god?
Quote:You say you are without god. We are arguing semantics. I don't see anyone here without God, yet everyone including myself is without god or gods all depending upon how one applies or interprets the term. You do not perplex me. You only confirm my deepest convictions over and over.

I disagree that it's semantics. You've been quite clear as have I.

Is that why you're here? To confirm your convictions and make you feel pious or smug in your belief? I don't go to christian forums to make myself feel better about my atheism.

Quote: Still we do just that -- we're fine, happy, lead productive lives, embrace laughter and love without god.


Quote:My dear, I do not mean to intrude upon your happiness. You have from the start sat me in a place where I was viewed as such. I have been since moved to step carefully with you or just leave you alone.
I have asked to be friends, yet your suspicion of me counts my actions as insincere and serve a guile of sorts.

Quote:Not being born is not comparable to dying. Even your own words say you would miss those you Love just as I assume others would miss you. Love is what it's all about. There's nothing wrong with wanting to live and everything right about it. You all speak of things that seem to try and convince each other otherwise. You seem unwilling to have any altruistic hope of a wonderful afterlife, only because you count all such hopes as religious mind control. In my honest view which you would not ask for nor care to hear, you are a victim of religion and it still controls you.


When the last person alive who knew me and remembered me dies, it's very much like I never existed save for census documents or maybe land titles. I don't need to live forever or an afterlife or to be reincarnated.

If you knew there was no afterlife, would that knowledge change what you did today? What if you believed you'd just be reincarnated? I don't believe that so I strive to give each day meaning because I know I won't live forever -- I know I'll never see my family again once they've all died. I'm ok with it. It did used to bother me that all Hilter got was a bullet in the head -- without eternal torment...but really I'm ok with that. His reign of terror was over.

Quote:Now if you ask me if I think it's possible some alien "seeded" or was even responsible of the big bang occurring; I don't know -- but I do know that individual or individuals left us long ago. Probably long before our galaxy was even created.

It is also equally possible that our universe was created by nothing and that it expands and contracts over billions of millennia, only to destroy itself and do it again -- with of course totally new results each time. But I don't know.
Certainly, the fact that time itself is a part of the creation indicates that there are indeed other dimensions.

I havent a clue why my whole post looks like I only replied to one line. Weeping stupid iPad.

We don't know that to be true. Still no proof of god or gods. It could be if they do exist they are simply self-replicating without any divine or other purpose.

The sun rises in the West and the bird shits on the coffeetable.


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10-05-2013, 03:20 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2013 03:33 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: the God term
(10-05-2013 03:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(10-05-2013 02:22 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Smartass

Lets say something out there exists. It's a being who can travel through dimensions and seems to be able to control all matter, energy, space and time.

It would seem like a god, but not really be one. It would have all the imperfections that a sentient being would. Emotions, feelings, bad judgements etc.

All we would know about it would be what it communicated, and what it's actions told us about it.

From a human point of view this type of being or beings would be god like. How then could we trust it?

The short answer is that we can't.

Instead the intelligent thing to do is to read it's works. Make judgements based on that and see what the nature of this thing is.

It's very possible that this being is using love as a drug to mislead the human race. The reason for this could range from perceived fear that the human race might become a danger to itself, to bordem.

So then it becomes the most important thing to investigate religions, the after life, and other claims to see whether or not these things are true.

Atheists have no evidence for these things and reject them until adequate proof can be provided, tested, and verified.
Your proposal is valuable as a tool to arrive at so obvious a conclusion. That we would be at the mercy of any such being. We would therefore have no viable choice but to trust.

No because of the unknown we must wait and watch, and then make a decision based on what we do know.

If we can not know the nature of this being then we cannot decide it's goodness or badness. We must wait before making a decision to worship it or not. We don't even know if the thing you call god is a god. I might be a very powerful being that isn't god at all.

So far the claim of eternal life has been discounted, spirits have been shown to be false, and all other claims of your god have been discounted.

Now how can you tell a powerful alien who can travel through the dimensions, and control energy, matter, space, time from god?

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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10-05-2013, 03:22 PM
RE: the God term

The sun rises in the West and the bird shits on the coffeetable.


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10-05-2013, 04:00 PM
RE: the God term



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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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10-05-2013, 04:37 PM
the God term
The god will be incorporeal. The alien will be wearing a bow tie. Right?
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10-05-2013, 04:42 PM
RE: the God term
(10-05-2013 03:17 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(10-05-2013 01:51 PM)childeye Wrote:  I think the reason there are different sects or even religions are because people become bored with their old image of god and need to remake it into something new, fresh or more interesting -- like Joesph smith and Moromism. Or people became disgruntled with their own dogma, and wished to create a new "truer" at least in their view, dogma. Martin Luther did this. a few have done it for both reasons.



Yes. My disbelief, if you like, goes much deeper than dismissing the bible as simply superstition.



I don't require a fuzzy blanket. In fact, I find it greatly comforting that there isn't one. It makes me stronger and more appreciative to what I've accomplished. I don't require a god or eternal reward or punishment to make me a better person. All the power to change, alter, learn and grow lies within me.


I disagree that it's semantics. You've been quite clear as have I.

Is that why you're here? To confirm your convictions and make you feel pious or smug in your belief? I don't go to christian forums to make myself feel better about my atheism.






When the last person alive who knew me and remembered me dies, it's very much like I never existed save for census documents or maybe land titles. I don't need to live forever or an afterlife or to be reincarnated.

If you knew there was no afterlife, would that knowledge change what you did today? What if you believed you'd just be reincarnated? I don't believe that so I strive to give each day meaning because I know I won't live forever -- I know I'll never see my family again once they've all died. I'm ok with it. It did used to bother me that all Hilter got was a bullet in the head -- without eternal torment...but really I'm ok with that. His reign of terror was over.

Certainly, the fact that time itself is a part of the creation indicates that there are indeed other dimensions.

I havent a clue why my whole post looks like I only replied to one line. Weeping stupid iPad.

We don't know that to be true. Still no proof of god or gods. It could be if they do exist they are simply self-replicating without any divine or other purpose.
Do you think you could do a little introspection with me and step outside of yourself for a moment for an objective view?

It's not a science project, it's just living. It doesn't matter how we guess at what is the nature of the force that made the big bang and created the sentience of mankind. Because we are talking about what only we can perceive as fact not conceive as fiction. What matters most in Life. Inside each and every one of us exists a single Truth that Love is good. That is what is at the foundation of our sentient reality emotionally and mentally and defines the meaning of our existence in the sweetest way possible.
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